[Mike Hendren]

Last night's SWWOG match between deWit and Nelson was played at this course in the Netherlands.  



I was blown away.  Apparently Colt & Alison?

Any comments/insight from our European correspondents?  Paging Paul Turner.

Thanks.

Mike

[Robert Emmons]

It was fun to watch, very interesting including the driving distances...RHE

[Adam Clayman]

There's a replay today, in about an hour, 11 am eastern time.

[Jason Blasberg]

DeWitt kept hitting it 240 with driver . . . amazing!

The course looks great back then.  I'd love to see it someday.

[Phil McDade]

Fascinating course, from what I saw last night. At some point late in the round the announcer (Sarazen, I think) said the course had something like nine blind tee shots!

I think it'd be great if Shell (or another sponsor) could rev up this format again and get to similar "unknown" courses around the world.

[BCrosby]

Loved the course. I would like to know more about it.

I was shocked at how badly Nelson played.

Bob

[Noel Freeman]

Paul Turner and I played here in 2004.  It is the most exclusive course in Holland and on par or perhaps superior to the Kennemer.  The terrain I can best describe as heaving and massively rolling.  Something you wouldnt expect in this area of the world.  The back 9 holds the best holes especially if my mind serves me the stretch from 13-16.. The 14th is a heroic 400 yard or so hole with amazing terrrain down both sides but a massive dune on the right which you need to carry or thread the needle on the left.

The course has been changed often since Colt and Alison were there but I'd rate it a solid 7 or 8 on the Doak Scale.  It could sniff World Top 100 if people really got out to see it--I'd have it a notch above say Saunton but still under Deal..

If you are looking at the aerial.. The green in the lower central part is the par 3 4th.. The adjacent green above it is #1-- a par 5 from the clubhouse.. The 2nd hole's tee is b/t the 1st and 3rd greens and goes back to the clubhouse.  #3 is an unbunkered snaking hole over terrific terrain in the left hand corner..  #5 goes out on the right side and has a bunker left and right by the green.. 6 then doglegs right, 7 comes back in, 8 is a short hole and 9 goes back towards the clubhouse with a single bunker on the right..

The 18th plays in the upper left hand corner going back to the club house..

[Noel Freeman]

I forgot, I talked with Tom Dunne who also visited the course and told him the closest terrain in the US to the Hague is Eastward Ho!

[james soper]

Paul Turner and I played here in 2004.  It is the most exclusive course in Holland and on par or perhaps superior to the Kennemer.  The terrain I can best describe as heaving and massively rolling.  Something you wouldnt expect in this area of the world.  The back 9 holds the best holes especially if my mind serves me the stretch from 13-16.. The 15th is a heroic 400 yard or so hole with amazing terrrain down both sides but a massive dune on the right which you need to carry or thread the needle on the left.

The course has been changed often since Colt and Alison were there but I'd rate it a solid 7 or 8 on the Doak Scale.  It could sniff World Top 100 if people really got out to see it--I'd have it a notch above say Saunton but still under Deal..

If you are looking at the aerial.. The green in the lower central part is the par 3 4th.. The adjacent green above it is #1-- a par 5 from the clubhouse.. The 2nd hole's tee is b/t the 1st and 3rd greens and goes back to the clubhouse.  #3 is an unbunkered snaking hole over terrific terrain in the left hand corner..  #5 goes out on the right side and has a bunker left and right by the green.. 6 then doglegs right, 7 comes back in, 8 is a short hole and 9 goes back towards the clubhouse with a single bunker on the right..

The 18th plays in the upper left hand corner going back to the club house..

it's tough to give the hague a 7 or 8 on the doak scale when doak himself doesn't even give it those marks. reminds me of woody allen and marshall mcluhan in 'annie hall'.

[David_Tepper]

Did anyone see the Palmer/Player vs. Nelson/Venturi match filmed at Pebble Beach in the 1960's on The Golf Channel last night? Nelson/Venturi won 4&2!

[Noel Freeman]

Paul Turner and I played here in 2004.  It is the most exclusive course in Holland and on par or perhaps superior to the Kennemer.  The terrain I can best describe as heaving and massively rolling.  Something you wouldnt expect in this area of the world.  The back 9 holds the best holes especially if my mind serves me the stretch from 13-16.. The 15th is a heroic 400 yard or so hole with amazing terrrain down both sides but a massive dune on the right which you need to carry or thread the needle on the left.

The course has been changed often since Colt and Alison were there but I'd rate it a solid 7 or 8 on the Doak Scale.  It could sniff World Top 100 if people really got out to see it--I'd have it a notch above say Saunton but still under Deal..

If you are looking at the aerial.. The green in the lower central part is the par 3 4th.. The adjacent green above it is #1-- a par 5 from the clubhouse.. The 2nd hole's tee is b/t the 1st and 3rd greens and goes back to the clubhouse.  #3 is an unbunkered snaking hole over terrific terrain in the left hand corner..  #5 goes out on the right side and has a bunker left and right by the green.. 6 then doglegs right, 7 comes back in, 8 is a short hole and 9 goes back towards the clubhouse with a single bunker on the right..

The 18th plays in the upper left hand corner going back to the club house..

it's tough to give the haig a 7 or 8 on the doak scale when doak himself doesn't even give it those marks. reminds me of woody allen and marshall mcluhan in 'annie hall'.

-- I said I'd (me!) give it a 7 or 8 on the scale.. I don't care what Tom said about it, his scale yes and if I lived within 100 miles of it as Tom deemed a 7 to be worthy of I'd sure as hell go play it.. as for your reference to Annie Hall, I don't think Tom is going to come out and back up any assertion.  I would say tops 5-6 people on this site have seen the HAGUE and i referenced the scale so they would know how good it is..

[Bob_Huntley]

I agree with Noel. I drove from Brussels en route to Amsterdam and played the course some forty years ago. I remember that that they had a tiny shed on a practise area to protect a player from the elements... which could be brutal.

It certainly would rate a 7 or 8 in my book.

Bob

[Pete Lavallee]

I played the course some forty years ago.

Bob

Would you happen to remember how many Kronners you earned in the obligatory Wolven game?

[Tom Dunne]

Doak gave Haagsche a 6 in the CG back in '83. That's hardly a scathing rating, and I do think one could make an argument for 7 or maybe even higher. Haagsche is really, really good. Excellent terrain...tons of elevation change while still remaining walkable...many holes have something of an "overgrown links" feel. (I mean that in a good way--check out F. Pont's golfarchitecturepictures.com, he's got tons of shots of KHGCC that get at what I'm trying to say.)

Great contour movement in the fairways and some truly standout holes. #14 comes to mind:


(photo: Frank Pont)

Best course in the Netherlands in my opinion. The Kennemer has a case, but I simply found Haagsche more exciting. If I remember correctly, the knock on Haagsche would be that the greens aren't super-exciting, but the topography tee-to-green is so wild throughout that you don't really miss the absence of putts that break ten feet. I'm not saying they're flat, either, just that green contours are more subdued.

I believe Frank said he was working with the club to improve a few of the greens (I don't know how many are Colt originals)--he'd be the man to chime in here.

[Eric Franzen]

I played the course some forty years ago.

Bob

Would you happen to remember how many Kronners you earned in the obligatory Wolven game?

I belive "Gulden" was Holland's currency back then (before it got replaced by the Euro), but since it is Pete I guess this also could refer to some obscure Dutch ale.

[Bob_Huntley]

Pete,

Unfortunately I played alone.

Bob

[Mike Hendren]

Pete,

Unfortunately I played alone.

Bob

What a pity.  Given Bob's typical winnings and a reasonable rate of return over the past 40 years, the opportunity cost of his solo rounds must approximate $4,000.  I hope they were few and far between.  

Otherwise, the poor chap will never be able to retire, move to a nice area, buy a decent house and join a modest golf club.  The John Deere baseball cap is beginning to make sense.

Mike

[james soper]

has the course changed since 83?

[Frank Pont]

I'm indeed currently working with the club on restoring the greens.

They still have 13 original Colt greens (3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18)

The others are later renovations by Frank Pennink (1, 2, 13),  a Dutch architect called Alan Rijks (17) and Kyle Phillips (7).

Only Penninks green 1 was a succes, all other greens will be changed to make them more in line with Colts other greens.

The original greens have been accurately measured in 3D, and are drawn in contours of 6 cm (2 inches). The aim is to rebuild them as closely as possible to the original. Green bunkers are also being restored including sand faces.

The first 9 greens were done last summer, the next 9 greens will be done next summer. To see pictures of the renovation process see my website:

http://www.frankpont.com/Webgalleries/Haagsche%201/index.htm

Sadly many other renovation projects in Europe have not been as diligent in reguilding Colt greens (eg. Granville, St. Germain, Frankfurter, Dommel and upcoming Hilversum where 6 original Colt greens will disappear to gain length so the club can host the Dutch Open again....)

Paul Turner, congratulations on your newborn daughter! Are you interested in the contours of the original Colt greens?

[Paul_Turner]

Thanks Frank!  Good luck with the project.  The greens needed some help when we were there last year.

Would love to see the original green contours.

I always thought this course was Alison rather then Colt.  Colt was getting a bit long in the tooth for travelling in the v late 30s.  Plus Alison is mentioned in a contemporary magazine article I found.

It's an amazing course with land that is almost unlike any other.  The only course that I've seen with some similarity is Eastward Ho!

[Frank Pont]

I will send you the contours to the email address I have on file for you. It are PDF files. I''l also send you my designs for the greens that are getting changed.

You are right that the design is Alison, but funny enough the green and bunker styles are rather more like Colt than Alison. Very few bunkers and not as large as the bunkers I've seen of Alison elsewhere.

Funny enough only one fairway bunker on the whole course, no need for more given the wildly undulating fairways which are enough of an hazard.

Other course Alison did in Holland was Amsterdam Old Course, of which only 3 holes original remain.

You still owe me the Morfontaine pics, and any other good courses you might want to burn on a CD/DVD  

BTW, Golf Architecture Pictures.com had 1 MILLION page views in the last 6 months; unbelievable, people must like it!! Only problem seems to be I have rather limited time to put Pics up, and more important other than Chris Hunt nobody seems to want to make the effort to contribute.... not exactly how opensource works....

Finally I also have a son of 2 months old, named Elger, so we also can relate now on sleepless nights

[Robert_Walker]

I played The Hague with my son and John Morrissett last spring, just before they went to temporary greens. This is a very good course. The fourteenth is looks much more intimidating than it is. Overall, the course compares with Easward Ho! in difficulty, wind, and terrain.
I have heard a lot of good things about Frank Pont and the work he is doing in the Netherlands.

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