And now for something completely different...

[Ulrich Mayring]

So Ulrich, just what is natural about randomly strewn bits of sand amongst non-native and maintained grasses with built up slopes and drainage and irrigation lines throughout the land?

Show any Golfer two Golf courses and he can tell you which one looks more natural. But you might get different answers from different people, because it depends a lot on what you grew up with and other considerations. Some architects are very successful at hiding the artificial necessities of the course.

Ulrich

[Kyle Harris]

So Ulrich, just what is natural about randomly strewn bits of sand amongst non-native and maintained grasses with built up slopes and drainage and irrigation lines throughout the land?

Show any Golfer two Golf courses and he can tell you which one looks more natural. But you might get different answers from different people, because it depends a lot on what you grew up with and other considerations. Some architects are very successful at hiding the artificial necessities of the course.

Ulrich

No golf course is natural. But yes, aboriginal features are more appealing than completely man-made.

[Tom_Doak]

If any of the writers on "The X Files" had been into golf, I'm sure they could have made something out of all of these island greens appearing all over the world.  Perhaps they are today's answer to the pyramid forms of previous millennia.

There must be a better reason for them than their golfing value, which is near to nil.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Forrest

I must admit this style is not my cup of tea.  I understand the "theme" in a place like stone harbor but I can't see one in that photo.

What was your rationale for this green complex?

[Ron Farris]

I JUST LOVE PHOTOSHOP!

[Bill_McBride]

Yes — You can play to the green from a lower angle (not high on a dune where the tees for the regular par-3, No. 11 are located) ...but from No. 10's fairway. This was a routing feature, but is sadly never used. When you set the course up to play to the green (from angle of the photo, only lower) you then add the 19th hole into the round to make 18.

Adam — The idea cam as we struggled to work in 12 acres of lagoons. We had to meet this criteria to have enough water storage. The depth could not go lower because of the water table — about 5-ft. So, lots of lagoon surface area was required.

It struck me that the water would look and play better as a series of ponds in the lowest area of the site. I tried not to have much of it come into play, but when it did, I wanted it to be dramatic. While there are some views of water at several lower holes, only 9, 11, 12, 13 and 16 actually interact with water.

I did not want repetitive shots involving water. The idea at No. 11 is to give a unique look at water. No just avoid it, but key in on accuracy if you want birdie or par. As I stated earlier, bogey awaits if you get sloppy, even when you stay dry from the tee.

We had to locate a pumphouse near the water, and also re-circulate the water for quality purposes. As I sketched the pumphouse, it became a stone building with iron Mexican moftif window bars. As this progressed it became apparant that the building would be seen from every lower hole. I wanted it to look integral to the course — to somehow become a part of the course. The walls at No. 11 are design elements of this building, which sits nearby (behind the green and partially covereed at the walls by dines.)

I believe more than Desmond — or any specific hole he created — I was struck by Dye's No. 18 at The Golf Club. A series of zig-zag, right-angle stone walls guard that approach along the water. I was very fond of Dye's stone walls...although they were much lower and guarded a long hole, not a par-3.

Sketches evolved and it became more and more interesting to me as we situated the tees on top of a massive dune feature. The tee shot is about 30-40-feet elevated depending on the tees used.

Shy a bit of landscaping, the hole is well received and people have been taking lots of photos at both the tees and green.

Geoff, Forrest's rationale, and quite interesting it is, is outlined above.  

[Rick Shefchik]

I don't have a problem with this green, as long as the super and the club manager don't have a problem with me hitting my 59 degree wedge from one of those peninsulas to another.

[Chris Perry]

Chris Perry -- can you, the golfer, figure out the apple shape from the ground?  Or only from aerials?

Never having played it myself I can't give first hand knowlege, but unless the tees are the same height I'd guess you could discern something. There are lower angle shots online if you Google images using "apple tree golf".

[tonyt]

As for Forrest's original example;

I like the shots to be played, the scenarios that result and the various hole locations that further add more possibilities, and the potential for enjoyable golf as a result.

I dislike the look, and if I was a client who owned 20 courses, none would have this exact feature on it in a million years.

I don't dislike all courses that look forceably artificial and concocted. The ones I do like of this type seem to still be able to accommodate enjoyable golf and encompass sound strategy and/or thrill throughout the round.

[Forrest Richardson]

Tony —  "I dislike the look, and if I was a client who owned 20 courses, none would have this exact feature on it in a million years."

Gee, that's 50,000 years per course!

I think you bring up a good point. The owners of The Links at Las Palomas never dreamed I would propose such a golf hole — or look, as you call it. That fact is one of the interesting topics that is rarely discussed here...how golf course architects create ideas, communicate them to owners, and get them built. Indeed, it brings up a very interesting discussion: What is the role of the owner/developer and golf course architect?

To say that you would "...[never] have this exact feature...in a million years" suggests that you might be limiting any designer...not just me.

[Rick Shefchik]

Forrest --

Just as a point of clarification, you seemed to imply that the only way to get from point A to point B around one of those inlets is to putt, which is more than likely to lead to a three-putt (at least). Does the owner discourage or forbid playing a wedge on this green?

[Sean Leary]

Chris Perry -- can you, the golfer, figure out the apple shape from the ground?  Or only from aerials?

Never having played it myself I can't give first hand knowlege, but unless the tees are the same height I'd guess you could discern something. There are lower angle shots online if you Google images using "apple tree golf".

The tees are somewhat elevated, so the view is similar to this picture.  The green is absolutely enormous..Certainly a marketing ploy.

[olivier]

There is a course in France (Golf du Chateau de la Salle) shaped after the body of a woman. Aerial views (not too revealing I have to say) can be seen here http://www.geoportail.fr/?event=DisplayCartoVisu&url_insert=454c8017cd9addec9f7d2e88aa8ee6ae
(Enter la Salle after Allez a and choose the second one on the list then move due west till you see the course). Architect is Robert Berthet.

[Bill_McBride]

If it's what I think you're talking about, I get a kick out of that design!  

Whoops - just found it again.  Don't see "la femme" but I did find one green that looks like a footprint with bunkers as toes in the outline.

[Mike Hendren]

Hmmmm.



Forrest,

I fully believe you are astute enough to realize that as an in-house GolfClubAtlas architect and all around good guy, the treehouse is cutting you an awful low of slack on this thread.

I'll let you off the hook so long as you promise this is one and done.

Your pal,

Mike