[paul cowley]

Adam....Yes, we were all along and the golf was very informal, as sometimes keeping score can dull ones first time appreciation of a substantial course such as Ballyneal.....Rupert did remark about some of the drives made by a particularly long hitting member of our group and where they came to rest.....like 30 yds short of driving #1 playing from the tips over by 9 fairway.

Until I read this thread I was ignorant of your being a member [good move], and I too would have enjoyed a get together.

Maybe next time... slainte!

[Jerry Kluger]

Sean: When we played Ballyneal we arrived the afternoon before our scheduled round and it was suggested that we take our bags and walk a few holes before dinner: this is what makes Ballyneal a very special place.  A couple of guys grabbing their bags and walking the course for an afternoon loop is simply what golf is all about.  The course was designed to be walked and the peacefulness of it all is out of this world.  We would play a hole and comment about the bounces in the fairway. Then we would drop a second ball in the fairway to see how a 5 iron from 140 yards would play into the green versus an 8 iron - so cool.  We could then spend what seemed like forever, putting from different locations to see how the ball would break and how it would roll off the contours.  No pressure - simply enjoying golf, the course and the company of a good friend.

[RJ_Daley]

Paul, in regards to that particularly long hitting gent in your group, can you tell us if he in general has much difficulty hitting all the fairways, and if a course like this might only defend par at the particularly dramatically contoured greens.  Can you give us a rough idea of how a player of "Mr. Long's" talents attacks this course.  Does he just bomb it every hole, or does he play many lay-ups, less than driver stategies to favorable FW approaches. Did he choose to bound a few along the ground, and flirt with certain bunkers?  Did he see the contours to the extent that he used some of them as back boards to try to spin shots back from them to certain pins?  What does he think of the native prairie grass rimmed style of bunkers and their depth and placement.  

I ask this realising that one time around doesn't exactly allow a fellow to get acquainted with all the favorable positioning that he might utilize upon more familiarity with bounces and roll characteristics.  

For us armchair architects, I think the aspect we miss most is having the opportunity to tag along with a top player, and see courses from their impressions.  I really like the segments they do on the golf channel where they follow a tour player on courses familiar to them, and hear what their thoughts are on what they are trying to get out of their shots.

[Mike_Cirba]

Isn't it sad to see how much this bunker has shrunken over time from it's original size?   Perhaps a restoration is in order to bring this course back to it's original glory.  

Seriously folks...the pics look absolutely splendid.  Thanks for sharing.  

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, imagine if it could be tweaked to give the lips and rims that "upholstered" look.  Have you seen "puffy" lately?

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike, imagine if it could be tweaked to give the lips and rims that "upholstered" look.  Have you seen "puffy" lately?

Dick,

Last I saw Puffy he was hanging out with Tom Paul at a hip-hop club in the west Philly hood, both wearing gold chains with open shirts and smoking like crazy.

I think he put something in TeP's smoke, because Tom now thinks that upholstered look is word once you let the grass grow 3 feet long on it!    

[Aaron Katz]

This course looks awful.  Golf courses should be strictly emerald green.  There looks to be some yellow and brown patches in the fairways at this golf course.  And what's up with the weeds in some of the bunkers.  This Tom Doak guy needs to go back to architecture school.

[Tim Pitner]

Trust me--it's a dump.  There are no trees and no water.  

Seriously, sometimes I find it amusing when people express surprise at how good Ballyneal is/looks.  What did you expect?  Sorry if I'm getting into butt-boy territory here, but if you've played Pacific Dunes and know something about the land where Ballyneal is, it would have been a shock if the course weren't terrific.  I'm sure creating Ballyneal was hard work, but come on--who didn't think Doak and Co. would deliver here?

[Adam Clayman]

Sean,  Re The 17th tee shot;
 The elasticity of the hole sure must be great. So many people see it differently than others, strategywise.

For the average non-big bombers of the golf ball, the play is well away from the bunker. The leftside fairway level, is flatter and affords a view of the green. For the big hitters, or downwind, the center is the best line of play, but only if one is confident the ball will travel a minimum of 300-315 yards. Challenging the right corner bunker, or even playing short of it, more often than not, is not an optimal play, due to several factors. One being trying to hit a ball over that bunker from a downhill lie. Considering the distance needed to reach the green from there, the lower lofted club may not carry the top lip. Another is the prospects of being in that bunker.

The green on 17 is one of the best on the course. I can extrapolate my imagination to the day when I hit a shot perfectly short, to a rightside pin, with the proper trajectory, to take the center spine perfectly to kick the ball right, between the greenside bunker and the spine, eventually snuggling over towards the pin. The safer route will always be an approach that favors the leftside.

Mr. Katz,
It's customary to use the big smiley when making such hilarious comments.

[Jerry Kluger]

I thought the sharp dogleg left on 16 is fairly unique as the turn is almost 90 degrees.  Even if you don't make the dogleg you can still get over the hill to the fairway but if you make it to the opening, it is basically a straight shot up the hill.  I remember a hole at Bulls Bay which I believe is also a par 5, and there too, the hole turned 90 degrees after your tee shots - the big difference though was that the opening was through the trees so if you didn't make it to the turn you would have a tough time getting to the fairway.

[Jim Nugent]

Where are the cart girls?  

[Sean_Tully]

Jerry
Like you mentioned the course and the atmosphere of the club is just as you say. It is a perfect getaway, only better would be Sandhills, as it is even more remote and my cell phone did not work out there.

Adam

Thank you for the response regarding the 17th I was a little sketchy on the rest of the fwy. Unfortunately, I never saw the left hand side of that fwy or many others due to an errant driver.  I had better luck on day two as I did not have to swing through a Yucca plant like I did on day one. Quite the hazard, similar in ways to iceplant in that it can hurt your round and yourself trying to get out of the damn stuff.

Interested in your thoughts on the 12th and position off the tee considering the amount of movement in that fwy. How important is the location of the hole to where you want to place your drive? It seems with the amount of movement on the green and an understanding of the surrounds near the green that there are a number of options to get it close.

What is your favorite hole out there so far?
Is there any one hole that has grown on you since over the time you have been playing the course?

For me, the 12th is my favorite with the 7th not too far behind. The tee shotat 12 has your attention from the moment you get to the tee. I love the movement in the fwy and the small mound in front of the green. The green is something else, that requires a good shot from the fwy to get close and have a good shot at a birdie. The 7th is a great risk reward hole and it is driveable to those willing to go for it.

As to a hole that I noticed more the second time around was the 6th. It seems like I was already pumped up for the 7th after seeing it from the 4th fwy that I didn't notice the 6th as much as I should have the first time around. The green has a lot of bailout areas which I used both days, but to get the ball close was tough with the amount of movement on the green. I struggled both rounds with that hole and have since noted that it is the #1 handicap hole and for good reason, at least for me!

tully

[Tom Dunne]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but....what's the season out there? When does winter usually set in?

Thanks...

(Nice pics in this thread. Thanks for posting them!)

[Adam Clayman]

Sean,

One of the Honor caddies, whose name is synonomous with "hitting three", shared with me the proper shot attempt from the yucca. I'd be pleased to show you anytime.

Re 12th; I too love the 12th. I feel it's one of the important steps to the building of the creseando. Afterall, the 7th & 8th combination, is a hard act to follow. The 12th does have a prescribed better side off the tee. The left, nearest the jutting bunker, but, I'm beginning to think that that is only so, when the pin is on the left. (maybe short right too) I'm begining to theorize, that the right side "faiway hole" is a better option to a back right pin. There's a back right kick plate that can also act as backboard. Forgive my fickleness, but I wouldn't, and don't, assume my 15 rounds are nearly enough to figure-out all the intelligence behind this design. Since I'm not always a testosterone induced player, I like to play the very forward tee on this hole. I doubt you even saw it. It's at the 270 mark over on the right nearer the maintenance path. Tom, said he designed the left side of this hole to tempt the biiiiggggg hitter to go for the green. I love trying from the forward. It usually yields more trouble than it's worth, because it does bring all the trouble into play.

Re; The sixth; It is a great hole too. The leftside of that entire hole has a mojo all it's own. From the trench bunker adjacent to the LZ, to the gapping blowout short of the green. There's no question that successfully challenging both of these bunkers, the player is amply rewarded. Up at the green, The left bailout is much more desirable than the right, due to the cant of the green.

Favorite hole is a difficult question to answer. Rich Cummings put it best and suggested naming one's favorite Par 3, 4 & 5.  While that is also too limiting for such a course, as of this very moment my favs are; 7, 8 & 11. But I reserve the right to change my mind on any given day, and at any given moment. Likely wind dependant.

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