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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Hitler on Steriods
« on: July 03, 2006, 07:32:38 PM »
Yesterday I was tasked with writing an article on the recent changes and additions to Lansdowne Resort (Leesburg VA), including the new Norman Course which I played today.

I challenge our own Will Ellender, Mike Clayton and Jeff Forston to break par on this brutal course.  From the back tees this place could prove to be more an obstable to par than Wing Foot.

Guantanamo Penal is an understatement!  This ranks top 5 of the most difficult of the 900 or so courses I have ever seen.

Jay (shakin' in his boots) Cee

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 07:37:46 PM »
JC, maybe you could use the lead I saw once in a review of Eagle Vail, where "jail" was an understatement if you missed some of the upper fairways on the course:

"Veterans of Eagle Vail gather and discuss the golf course in the same hushed tones used by veterans of Guadalcanal in discussing that World War II campaign of unusual intensity and ferocity."

Or words to that effect, you get the idea!  I was struck by the historical parallels of your comments on Landsdowne II.

I remember Landsdowne I as a decent, low key course with way too much deep rough; last time I played it was probably 1990.

peter_p

Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2006, 07:43:25 PM »
Due to the area, the war between the states may give better metaphors, but you'd have to write two separate articles depending on the region you're targeting.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 07:45:15 PM »
John:  Your title did attract my attention.  However, I must say that I'm tired of marketinrg references to "steroids" as a positive.  I've heard several courses compared to Pine Valley (or some other course) on steroids.

Steroids are not a good thing unless you are seriously ill.  My son was treated with steroids for his underdeveloped lungs as a premature baby, but that's the exception to the rule.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2006, 07:45:23 PM »
Billy Boy!

In the title of this thread I've nakedly stolen/bastardized Lew Grizzard's once wonderful description of Pine Valley - "Hilter with a hangover!"

Anyway - this is JC's version.  Come east young man and you and I will play this 'never to return again venue' together.

JC

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2006, 07:47:18 PM »
Tom - positive??

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2006, 07:51:28 PM »
At 1730 yards - Norman boasts on the card that these last 4 holes are the "hardest mile in golf".

What a challenge ..... for the top 1/100 of a percent of the golfers....

JC

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2006, 08:40:30 PM »
What is it about Greg Norman and difficult golf courses?  His course in the Fort Worth area had to be redesigned to make it playable, and it is still too difficult for the resort trade it serves.  Sugar Loaf is handled by the big hitters like Mikelson when it is soft, but it can be a bear for the members.  I haven't played Shark's Tooth, but I was told to go play Fazio's Camp Creek instead because it was much more playable.

Does Norman's design style reflect a harshness that may be imbedded in his character (not a knock on him)?  He was known to be a ferocious competitor and a testy individual.  More broadly, do the personalities and value systems of architects have a way of bleeding through into their creations?

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2006, 08:50:08 PM »
That's odd that you guys say this, because I've found Norman courses to be pretty playable.  His course at Barefoot Resort in Myrtle Beach is very playable; pretty easy, actually.  Likewise, further down the Grand Strand, I found The Reserve to be fairly tame, although I only played the front nine.  I've also played the Great White course at Doral, and though I've heard the horror stories from when it opened, since they've redone it, it's fairly mild.  In the case of all three of these courses, Norman opted for big fairways, no rough, and a lot of waste areas.  His green complexes seem very receptive, as there is often a lot of room around them.  

All this considered, while my Norman experience is likely tainted a bit, I find his designs playable, unspectacular, but fairly enjoyable nonetheless.

I hope I get to play Lansdowne at some point, though, since I quite like really really hard golf courses, for some reason.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2006, 08:51:27 PM »
Is it easier to take an overly difficult course and make it more playable with changes over time? Or is it better too make the course easy and try to toughen it up later?

Is it better to err on the more difficult side?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 08:53:42 PM by Bill Gayne »

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hitler on Steriods
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2006, 09:01:03 PM »
I believe the former is true, although it seems that when people try to make tough courses easier, they overdo it.  I think that is what happened at True Blue, personally.  I find it boring at times, due to the over-wide fairways.  On many of the holes, it doesn't matter where you hit it, and that's a misuse of the 'wide fairway, multiple playing angles' concept.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

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