[Brian Cenci]

Had the pleasure of playing Wolf Run (just north of Indianapolis) on Sunday and thought I would post a few comments regarding the course.

Overall this is one of the best GOLF courses I've ever played.  I emphasize golf because as soon as you walk into the clubhouse before you step on the tee you realize that this is a "golfer's golf course".  The course exceeded my expectations going into the rounds.  I expected a very difficult golf course but I did not expect such an overall outstanding golf course in terms of shot value, course style, course management decisions and so many unique golf holes.  

I played with Dave Neveux (fellow GCA'er, we were hosted by another GCA'er Bob Barriger) and after the 36 holes Dave and I sat at a restuarant and gauged the course in our minds and in our rankings.  In my mind it's a 10 of a golf course in an 7 of a setting, which is difficult to compare to a course that is an 7 of a course but a 10 of a setting.  

Take for example Prairie Dunes vs. Pacific Dunes.  Prairie Dunes is a better GOLF course but lacks to Pacific in terms of overall experience, ambience and overall setting.  I rank Prairie Dunes better than Pacific and I guess that's how I look at Wolf Run.  As far as pure golf courses go (irrelevent of setting and landscape) it is nearly equal with Crystal Downs and Prairie Dunes.

There are so many great holes it is difficult to go through each one.  The stretch from #12 to #15 from the back tees was the most demanding stretch anywhere.  Each hole was so demanding and offered unique shots and decisions.  

And yes, the course was very difficult. Probably the hardest course I've ever played...which the wet weather, thick ruff and my consistent tops and squirrel hooks the first 18 didn't help.  Lost 6 balls the first 18 and none the 2nd 18 (going from a 95 to 85).

To describe the course I would say that it is a mix of Victoria National, Prairie Dunes and Hazeltine, with bunkers like Wild Horse.

I'd be interested what others think about the course, I'll post some more later once I see what others think of the course.

-Brian

[Rob_Waldron]

I had the pleasure of playing this Smyers gem two years ago and fell in love with it! I understand Steve was going back to make some changes. Have the change been made? I think he was going to focus on several of the the low lying holes which tended to retain moisture.

[RJ_Daley]

Brian, is this typical of the course?










If so, it appears a little busy on the extraeneous bunkers for my tastes.  I don't like the green rimmed with rocks, bunker and creek at all.  The greens themselves don't appear to have much contour, but all that said with the caution that these are only pictures.  

[Ken Fry]

RJ,

Wolf Run is a great course with a very solid routing.  The top picture you show (the par 3 #13) is a little over the top with bunkers.  Almost all of them are for show and not in play.  The hole is challenging enough and attractive without the numerous bunkers filling the hillside in my opinion.

The pictures you posted also show side anlges into greens and not the lines of play (hopefully).  This may make the bunkering look more extraneous.

The bottom picture is of the par 3 #16.  A severly downhill shot of about 150 yards if memory serves.  The green does present a tiny target.

The greens have subtle contours for the most part and are kept very fast.  Fun place to play if given the chance.

Ken

[Paul Carey]

Shivas,

Thank you for the reply.  I was trying to narrow down the many examples of "extraeneous" hazards on courses that are revered on this site.  

It is very hard to comment on a course without playing or at least walking the property.  I can't imagine commenting on the contour of the greens from a handful of pictures.

Paul

[Wayne Freeman]

RJ and Brian-  that first par 3 you have pictured is really the only hole I had real problems with. There are way too many bunkers just stuck on the side of the mountain that are out of character with the rest of the course and serve absolutely no purpose.  That being said,  the course certainly is excellent.  It was originally an all men's club, but they have opened up the club to women also-  problem is, it's just too tough;  women don't enjoy it at all.  I don't think they have any takers yet.  
     I played there last year and thought it was terrific-  there is a lot of varied terrain and no shortage of difficulty.The greens are very challenging with plenty of slope.  Steve Smyers was there and I got a chance to talk to him.  What a treat-  he's part owner.  Several holes are being lengthened - to make it just too hard for guys like me.
    Is it as good as Prairie Dunes-  not quite. But you wouldn't want to miss playing it if you're there.

[David Neveux]

   If I were going to join a golf club today, this would without question be the one.  I was very impressed with Wolf Run, and was honestly upset that I couldn't have a third crack at it.  IMHO their is not a weak hole on the course.  Is it a very difficult course? Yes.  Is it a fair golf course? I would say for the most part.  Is it for everyone?  Absolutely not.  RJ, the bunkering that is shown in the first, second, and third picture isn't typical of the entire course.  Some holes do have numerous bunkers on them, for the most part you would rather be in one of them than in the thick bluegrass.  I could see why some would say that bunkering looks over the top, but I didn't really find it to be.  I actually liked the way it looked, and thought it gave the course a unique look.  I love the way that green sits back there in that sea of bunkers(first pic).  Nearly half to three quarters are pretty much out of play, and trust me you would rather be in one of those bunkers than in the bluegrass surrounding them, it was quite thick.  Bottom line, at Wolf Run;  KEEP IT IN THE SHORT GRASS!!!
   The picture of the short par 3 16th, with the rocks, bunker and creek surrounding is one of the smallest greens I've run into.  However the shot is downhill, and plays no longer than 125yrds.  I made an X the first time and a 3 the second.  Bob, our host, made a 2 both rounds.  The par three's at Wolf Run are of a wonderful variety, I think I hit a 6, 5, 8, 9, 4, 3wood, SW and 52 degree.  We played the Black tees our first round and the back tees, the reds the second 18.
   It is my opinion that you could play this course over and over with the same feeling of excitement and anxiety that came over me on the first tee my first two rounds.  I say my first two rounds with the intention of returning, hopefully sooner than later, to play again.  Getting back to my first comment, if I were to join........it would be this one.  I say that because, as Brian noted, it is simply a golfers course and club.  We met and played with four or five different guys.  All them great guys who were all there, right there in the middle of mothers day, just playing golf.  Just jumping around the course, hitting golf shots.  The difficulty of the course I think repels a lot of people who aren't really into golf.  But if you are an addict like myself, who loves a great design and a tough test, then Wolf Run is definitely something I would put on your "to play" list.  Thats enought rambling for now, and probably enough spelling errors and grammer mistakes for everyone.  


D.P.N.

[Ken Fry]

Shivas,

The Pacific Ocean looks "natural" and fits the atmosphere on #16 at CPC.  Most of the bunkers on #13 at WR look over done.  Hence, the difference.

Ken

[Doug Sobieski]

Are the bunkers on #13 out of character for the golf course? Absolutely not. It's a rugged site, and there are several holes on the course that have a "wall" of bunkers like that. If it were the only hole on the course with that look, I might agree that it was overdone, but not in this case. It also may be one of the few 240 yard holes where the best bail out is LONG!

R.J.:

Regarding the greens, I can think of at least 5 greens that you can putt it off of out there! And they've always been very firm when I've been out there.

[Nick Pozaric]

Let's be honest -- take a good, hard look at that first picture of #13.  How many of those bunkers are really in play?  

3?

BFD.  The rest are just intimidation.  They make the hole seem longer and harder than it really is.  They're no different than the first 180 yards of the carry over the Pacific on #16 at CPC.  They are essentially irrelevent to the play of the hole, and if you hit a shot crappy enough to make them relevent, then shame on you and you deserve what you get.

How can you call the Pacific Ocean irrelevant?? You can play out of the bunkers but not the Pacific.

[wsmorrison]

From purely an aesthetic perspective since I have never been to the state let alone the course:

The thirteen bunkers visible in the first picture are not appealing to me.  They are too similar in size and shape and too numerous and patterned.

The second photo looks a bit better but the bunkers are again too similar in size and orientation.

Again, these bunkers look to be the same size and shape.  Differentiating them would look a lot better and more natural.  I think a couple of bunkers in native grasses would look a lot better.  Granted the long grasses would slow down play.  What about a large bunker or two to break up the patterns?

The last two photos look much better to me.  This is just my personal preference.  The pattern of many similarly shaped bunkers does not suit my eye.  But I can see why some would like the look--different strokes for different folks.

[Andy Troeger]

Brian and David,
  Sounds like a wonderful day of golf. I'm hoping to get down to Wolf Run soon, I've lived in Indiana for too long without getting down there and playing it for myself!

[Bob Barriger]

Brian, thanks for you kind thoughts on the day we had, it was my pleasure to host you and Dave.  The picture that is posted of #13 is before it was reworked, it was raised 4 feet on the right side and made larger front to back to accept whatever club needs to be hit from the 243yds tee, as I pointed out they have put in a tee for the future at 265yds, most people play it at 225 tee box, with it being downhill,the green will accept that club, plus the left side where you hit it Brian and saw that it has been sloped for a shot there to be directed toward the green. Also, the 2 bunkers justs short and right of the green have been combined into one bunker and since the green has been raised the 4feet, it is a brutal place to end up.  The course with the new tees not yet opened, but will open up in about 1 month will stretch it to 7300yds, par 71. With a short par 4 of 350 yds and #16 a short par 3 of 150yds which will play about 135yds.  There is a college tourney set for the first week of April with Georgia, Kentucky, Indiana, Minnesota and Purdue as well as some other collegiate team, I will be interested to see how it holds up against them. Andy, send me a private message and we can see how to get you out to Wolf Run.  One last thought, Brian, thanks for that double press on the last hole.

[Bob Barriger]

My mistake, the collegiate tourney is the first week of October. After 54 holes today,fatigue has overtaken my mental facilities.

[Tom_Doak]

Shivas:  I beg to differ with you regarding all the bunkers on the 13th at Wolf Run.  I'm not a fan of the esthetics there, but at well over 200 yards from the white tee, and nearly all carry to the green, the bunkers must be there so that a 10-handicap can find his bad shot and play itm instead of re-teeing.

[David Neveux]

Yea Brian, thanks for that double press on 18!!!  Simply put it was a fine little donation, and a nice way to thank Bob and his partner Craig.......it definitely made it interesting until I flew the green for the second straight round and Brian putted off the edge of the green into the LONG LONG grass.  A small price to pay for a wonderful day of golf, Albeit I didn't play much golf the second time around, I was more of a referee.

[Jim Thompson]

A DOUBLE PRESS AGAIN??

Sorry Brian

Dave you actually got on the Cenci press train after being its benefactor so many times.

That's the sign of a true friend.

Was this another case of the "Goldman Effect"?

[John Nixon]

I've lived in Indiana for too long without having had the chance to play it!

Ditto  *sigh*

[Paul Carey]

Tom Doak,

Good point.  All of us architect wannabes overlook those important  details that make a course more playable despite the overall difficulty found elsewhere.

Paul

[Brian Cenci]

Jim,
     Yea...the double press.  As you know, I hate pressing when I'm up...but when behind obviously I like it.  Dave shouldn't care anyways since I had to pick up all our losses on the course, standard.  Although he did pick up the tab at Charleys (Blowleys!) in Nobblesville after.

The bunkers weren't excessive in my mind.  The second round I got in only one bunker.  It is a very strategic golf course, very reminiscent of Crystal Downs with the number of options to play on every hole.

-Brian  

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