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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2006, 12:24:41 PM »
Tom & Wayne,
In Japan can you try to patent others ideas...  

Flynn would have to update his patent every 17 years and keep improving the basket to keep a monopoly on the market.  Did he?   ;D  
What would it look like today?

Mark - I also have a patent - "Closure assembly for cell culture vessels" - I haven't used it either...  :)
I did get paid $1 however.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 12:35:43 PM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2006, 01:14:35 PM »
Phil, I saw a photo in an old Golf Illustrated (I think) of a green at San Francisco GC that showed a basket.  Do you know what issue it was?  Do you have any photos of SFGC showing the baskets?

Not Phil, but I posted this picture of #7 at SF previously from a 1927 issue.

"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2006, 02:19:32 PM »
Mike,
My patent is nearing expiration.  Actually it if I tried to defend it I'd lose because it would be considered abandoned.  You have to use it or you lose it (at least the rights that a patent affords you)  ;)  
« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 02:20:14 PM by Mark_Fine »

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2006, 03:56:57 PM »
Kevin,

Thank you very much for posting the photograph, I was trying to find it for a while now.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2006, 04:07:39 PM »
Kevin,

Thank you very much for posting the photograph, I was trying to find it for a while now.

It is from pg 17 of this Golf Illustrated from October 1927:

http://photoarchive.usga.org/SEGL/Periodicals/Golf%20Illustrated/1927/DOCUMENTS/October%201927.pdf
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Sean_Tully

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2006, 04:37:59 PM »
Here is another pic of SFGC using the wicker baskets in 1934! It is hard to make out but it appears that the shape is a little different. Where the Merion baskets seem a little more heart shaped, it appears that the version in the photo that I have is more rounded in the middle with what appears to be the flagpole sticking out of the top. The picture is very intersting  in that you can still see Lake Merced as late as 1934 from the course.

Heres the link

http://homepage.mac.com/tullfescue/PhotoAlbum5.html

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2006, 09:07:18 PM »
Wayne:

It was the 1950 U.S. Open that did not use the wicker baskets; the USGA decided "traditional" flagsticks were preferable.

All other competitions before or since have used the baskets.

Tom:

The nightly basket drill didn't begin until about 1970+.  Until then, they were left out at night and nobody ever bothered them - or at least not often enough to have them taken in every night.

One evening, a group of underaged drinkers pulled over to the side of Ardmore Avenue, removed the "basketstick" on the nearby 12th green, set it afire with some flammable liquid and walked a couple of hundred yards down the road with their trophy ablaze until a Haverford Township constable happened upon the scene.  The club declined to prosecute although parents were duly informed and restitution was made ($20 back then?).  After that, the longtime night watchman began to navigate the East Course every evening before dark and so has it been ever since.

Greg Norman did a course a while back where he used baskets - at least at the beginning.

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2006, 09:52:33 PM »
Thanks, Chip.  I wasn't sure if it was 1934 or 1950.  I was too lazy to dig it out of my pile of Merion notes.

John Gosselin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2006, 10:00:39 AM »
IMHO, Bringing in the wickers at the end of the day must be one of the best jobs in all of golf course maintenance.

In the mid eighties I worked at Merion,for Richy Valentine on the maintenance staff, as an intern. I lived in the clubhouse along with about 5 or 6 other interns from around the world. Bill Jones was the assistant, now the super at Friars head, and he would give out job assignments. By far the most sought after was bringing in the wickers at the end of the day in the wicker truck. A leisure ride around the east course in an old pick-up truck, with a cold six pack while, the sun was setting over the white faces...hey maybe that was my GCA moment that was discussed in another thread.

By the way the second best job at Merion back then also involved the wicker truck. Everyday one of us that lived at the club had to take Frank Marchava, a fellow employee, home in the wicker truck. Frank lived about 3 or 4 miles from the club and although he walked to work we would drive him home. Frank was 75 years old and was the bunker man. He was the only person at that time that was allowed to do any maintenance on the bunkers. That was his job everyday all day. He would disappear in the morning only to reappear at the end of the day. He never took a cart and always had an assortment of tools thrown over his shoulder. With a 124 bunkers at the time, it probably took him at least a month to get around to all of the bunkers. There you go, the big secret to the Merion bunker look of old, leave them alone! Anyway back to taking Frank home. Once you got to Franks house he would invite you in to house for something to drink and eat. Frank didn't speak English and I don't speak Italian, so I am assuming his arm waving and yelling meant to come in for something to eat or drink or else. He served what I was told by others his homemade wine mixed with Pepsi along with an assortment of hard dry cookies. I choked it all down the first time I went all the while Frank and his wife were talking to me with both voice and hand gestures. It felt like I was in trouble or something. Anyway by the time I left Merion I had acquired a taste and an appreciation for Frank's wine, cookies, and hospitality. I got the point that if I drank enough of his wine/Pepsi combination I could understand him and his wife and even join in the conversation.



Great golf course architects, like great poets, are born, note made.
Meditations of a Peripatetic Golfer 1922

TEPaul

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2006, 01:07:59 PM »
"There you go, the big secret to the Merion bunker look of old,"

JohnG;

I think that was part of the problem. The long time secret of how the bunkers were maintained under the Valentines' finally slipped out!    :)

What was the name of the old Italian guy Richie always talked about who used to do the bunkers with a scythe? He told me a couple of time but I can never remember his name. Richie had to retire him because he mangled his hand in a lawn mower. When he did that Richie whipped down to the hospital and they were about to take his hand off. He told Richie not to let them take his hand off or he wouldn't even want to live and so they never did. Richie brought him out of retirement for one of the Opens and when Richie gave him his check he didn't even want to take it. Richie also mentioned that his Dad said that one time Flynn mentioned that no one could built bunkers like Merion's EYE-talians.  ;)

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2006, 02:00:40 PM »
For interest... an early photo of Stoke Poges (built 1907).  They called them lobster pots and brought them back recently.

can't get to heaven with a three chord song

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2006, 02:03:33 PM »
Hey, Tommy.  Read John G's postcarefully.  Wasn't the name of the Eyetalian scythe man extraordinaire Marchava?

Paul,

Excellent job, posting the photograph.  Thanks.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2006, 02:38:05 PM »
Given the photographic evidence from Stoke Poges and St Germain, I think we can safely concluded that Harry Colt was once again stitched up by the Philadelphia GCA crew.  ;)

PS
Seriously, I wonder if St Germain was influenced by Merion.  The course not only had the wicker baskets but also the scotch broom in profusion in and around bunkers with high sand faces.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2006, 04:47:44 PM »
Paul,

When was St. Germain built?  

"I think we can safely concluded that Harry Colt was once again stitched up by the Philadelphia GCA crew. "

Maybe Flynn had better lawyers than Colt  ;)

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2006, 04:21:52 PM »
Wayne,

The baskets were used at the Greenbrier Old White.  Looks like photos from the late teens, the "globe" was more rounded than those at Winged Foot.  We have been trying to trace the origin of those because they plan to use them again.  Let me know what you find out.  

Lester

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2006, 04:48:53 PM »
Lester,

Do you have any photographs of the baskets at Old White?  

Did I ever tell you we have a stick routing on a topo made by the mechanical department at White Sulphur Springs dated June 15, 1920?  The contour intervals are 2'.  The proposed course shown on the map has the James River and Kanawha Turnpike cutting through it.  There are a few holes from the existing course shown as well near a casino and tennis courts.  Is your work finished at the Greenbrier?

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2006, 06:30:31 PM »
Wayne,

Yes we have pictures, I'll round them up for you.  I would like to see the routing plan you have.  Unfortunately, my work there is 99%.  Media opening this spring, GCA'ers who have media credentials will be invited, other spots will be filled in over the summer.  Should be around May 30th.

Lester

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2006, 07:26:38 PM »
Thanks, Lester.  I'd be pleased if you send it to me.  I'll give you my address offline.  I can copy the topo map and email it to you sometime soon.

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2006, 09:59:15 AM »
Are there any tales of a golf ball blasting through the wicker and lodging itself in the basket?

What's the ruling?
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

wsmorrison

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2006, 12:07:06 PM »
Dave,

You are correct.  The placing of the ball on the lip of the hole is the procedure allowed if the ball is lodged in the basket.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2006, 03:15:55 PM »
Guys, isn't it just a matter of time before people figure out that flags and/or baskets can be used as advertising/billboards?  Not to threadjack, but has anybody seen this yet?  Why do I have a feeling that The Duhnald will be the first offender?

ShivaS

In the mid 1980's, an Australian firm was providing free flags to some clubs, with a small rectangular advertising strip where the flag adjoined the stick.  The flag itself was single colour (yellow I think) but the advertising was a mixture of white background with red and blue writing.

I think this experiment lasted for two or three years, and has not been seen since! :o

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2006, 03:29:30 PM »
If an idea is not patented and has been in the public domain, it is NOT patentable.

Sadly, I know of several hundred US counterexamples.

Quote
I still swear by the shovel

I do my swearing first at the snow, then at the shovel.

TEPaul

Re:Merion baskets used on other courses
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2006, 04:36:53 PM »
"Are there any tales of a golf ball blasting through the wicker and lodging itself in the basket?
What's the ruling?"

MM;

Sure--there've been a number of tales of the ball blasting through the wicker and lodging in the basket.

The ruling is you get a letter with a bill in it for $589.95.