[Patrick_Mucci]

Gene Greco,

What I don't understand, from a mathematical and logical point of view is:  How can TCC receive a score of 7.97 if one of the rating criteria categories is "ease and intimacy of routing" ?

One also has to consider that the second hole, a short par 4 is converted into a par 3.

There are alterations to the golf course on the regular as well as the injected holes which distorts the "composite" course.

Playing a drive on one hole, only to play your approach to a green from another hole seems too contrived.

Now, I like TCC, I think it's a neat golf course, but, I can't seem to reconcile the apparent disregard of a specific rating category when it comes to evaluating that golf course.

The evaluation or ranking of TCC should be based on the golf course that's played day in and day out, not a hybrid on steroids.

My second question is:

Where would the golf course rank as it stands, without gerrymandering the holes ?

Certainly the "ease and intimacy of the routing" category would get a higher score.

What about the other categories ?

[Craig Van Egmond]

Matt,

        I don't think that Mr. Wigler is claiming that Arnie/Art have courses that should be in the top 100, I think he's pointing out that both of these teams have done over 200 courses, some of them on some prime properties with big budgets and Engh has gotten some poor sites and has done maybe 15 courses.  That's a pretty piss poor batting average for Arnie/Art and pretty high for Engh. Between the over 400 courses by Arnie/Art not one is worthy of the top 100, not one 7 or 8 anywhere?  That's just sad.

[James Bennett]

One aspect of the Golf Week lists that I really liked was the simple layout of the course name and essential details.

For example.  The number 43 course is one which I am unfamiliar with in the extreme.  I know now its full name, its US State and nearby town, the principal architect, the year of construction and the nature of access (public/private etc).  I don't care as much about the score or the ratings, but this information is terrific, especially for a non-US resident.

Can I suggest this as a template for our own postings here on GCA, perhaps on the 'courses by country' and the 'my home course' posts.

Extract from the Golf Week Lists

43. (44) White Bear Yacht Club (p) 7.43
White Bear Lake, Minn.
Donald Ross, 1916


James B

[David Wigler]

David W said, "There is no way Engh should have more top 100's than both Palmer and Hills combined."

Please be kind enough to list for me the top AP and AH courses you have played that you believe would sniff a top 100? Frankly, I have played more than my share and Jim Emgh has done better work than both of those assembly-line productions.

With all due respect to The King -- his team simply cranks out courses but nearly all of them follow the same formula -- it's akin to fast food -- always reliable but never nourishing. Ditto the works of Art Hills.

Matt,

This time around I am going to be a kinder, gentler Dave so take this with a grain of salt but I am guessing you did not read the thread before your post above.  I was in no way saying that AP and AH got the shaft by Golfweek.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I was complimenting JE on the amazing recognition he has gotten on a very limited portfolio and fairly harshly criticizing AP and especially AH given the sites, and budgets that they have gotten, that JE could be topping both of them.  AP and AH are currently proving Chevy Chase was wrong when he said that "Even a blind Pig find a nut every once in a while."

[Matt_Ward]

David:

Ditto the kinder / gentle approach -- appreciate the further explanation. I simply responded to what you printed -- "this time around."

The Palmer / Hills portfolios is really loaded with mediocre layouts that lack anything that strikes me as being beyond the obvious.

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