Latest Links Magazine - Ballyneal/Raters/Overrated

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:  Montauk is not an original Trent Jones design, of course -- he renovated an older course on the property, which I believe was a private club that had fallen on hard times.

Bill Kittleman told me he had played the original layout many years ago and that it was quite good.  I can't remember who designed it to begin with.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

Thanks for the correction / update.

I still believe MD could be something of real quality. The rolling land is Mother Nature's gift but the ball really falls into the court of New York State. It is up to them to decide how much $$ and how much effort will go into the course.

There's plenty of good things with the course -- the long downhill par-3 12th is a real bear of a hole when dealing with the general headwind encountered there. The rest of the course could use the kind of makeover that would clearly elevate to the position of being the second best public course in The Empire State.

I have my fingers crossed.

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt:  Montauk is not an original Trent Jones design, of course -- he renovated an older course on the property, which I believe was a private club that had fallen on hard times.

Bill Kittleman told me he had played the original layout many years ago and that it was quite good.  I can't remember who designed it to begin with.

Tom,

The original was by H.C. Tippets, I believe, and pictures of it certainly make it appear interesting.  I think the routing of the original is essentially lost, however, as it appears to me that the RTJ version is laid out quite differently, using very little of the original.

Also, it's my understanding is that most of what is at MD is essentially Rees Jones, circa 1968.

Makes you wonder what the hell went wrong.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Matt,

Excluding The Black, is there a better public course on Long Island than the Montauk Downs that sits there today?

If I remember, you have similar views of The Red, so that would leave LI National?

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

I am a big fan of Montauk Downs and the Red Course at Bethpage. However, there are quite a few people who seem to think that the aformentioned courses are somehow "right" behind the Black. That is a big time stretch IMHO.

Mike, let me also mention that the 18-hole layout at Spring Lake in Middle Island is also quite good. Gets little attention because few ever speak about it.

Montauk needs a massive overhaul -- not just simply planting some grass seed and then proclaiming the course is magically back. The devil is in the details and the course needs quite a few -- some of which I have already mentioned.

The greatest aspect of MD is that green fees are very reasonable and given the close proximity to all the key spots on the east end it is a layout that could be a real shining star.

I've heard all the talk -- it's time for NY State Parks & Recreation to step up to the plate and show the kind of results the property can and should provide. We shall see.

Mike -- LI National is a concocted layout on a former potato field. It is artfully done in spots by RTJ Jr. but the naturalness and flow you see with the other public courses we have mentioned is sadly lacking. In addition, for th e$$ one pays to play there it really is a bit overpriced.

One other undervalued layout from the public side is Sunken Meadow. Not great by any means -- but it's worth a look.

[Matthew Mollica]

Royal Melbourne Composite over-rated?
Comments like this really strip a person of any credibility.

I feel quite sorry for George if he genuinely believes this.

Matthew

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Royal Melbourne Composite and The Country Club Composite in Brookline are "overrated"-according to Peper- because they are courses that do not exist for everyday play.