[Craig Sweet]

Alfie....the problem I see is not one of excessive distance.  Golf is a complicated game, and I think most people "take it up" with a sincere interest in "mastering" it...but they quickly realize there is NOTHING easy about golf...and like anything that is difficult, you either stick with it or you move on....

I think that is golf's "problem'...

[George Pazin]

Craig, the only people that is a problem for is people whose income is tied to new golfers.

I'm still mystified at your complete lack of concern of classic courses. I don't belong to one, probably never will, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the traditions of the game. I enjoy watching the majors on the grand old courses. I don't much want to see them moving to 8000 yard behemoths, new or stretched old.

[Craig Sweet]

George...the grand old classics that opt for tournament play, recieve no sympathy from me...if their membership wants to hack,cut,lengthen,dredge...whatever...to accomadate their egos and hold that major...so be it....

The plethora of other courses out there...some classics, some mearly old, are in my opinion, delusional if they think they have to "toughen up" the track for their everyday player...like I said, I watch the guys at my course....a modest 6500 yards from the everyday tees and very wide open with low rough and easy pins...have all they can handle....the equipment makes NO difference really....I can't believe that membership in a private, classic course, makes you a better golfer...so, I would argue that they should leave their course alone...and I would argue that the USGA should not roll back equipment...

[Craig Sweet]

George...one more thing...

I think it's important to keep in mind when discussing distance and equipment that the majority of golfers are 15-25 handicappers....the USGA, if I'm not mistaken, figures a 15-25 handicapper hits a drive about 220 yards.  NOT 350...NOT 320...but a very modest 220 yards...

[George Pazin]

I agree that the equipment makes no difference to most. I even agree that most classics needn't alter their courses.

I think it's sad that a relatively simple fix is passed over in favor of alterations.

I also think that if equipment makes no difference to most, why not roll back equipment?

No one that I've seen is saying we should return to hickories, or even wooden woods. My point is that the distance standard was created in the early 70s in recognition of the many problems unchecked could create. We are now facing those problems.

Why not turn a 350 yard drive into a 315 yard drive? A 300 yard drive into a 270 drive? Or even a 250 yard drive into a 225 drive? Simply to placate egos?

People are taking action with all courses right now. Classic courses are being altered, more and more 7500 yard courses are being built, the list goes on and on. Golf undeniably costs more the longer the course is, regardless of which tees you play. All because of the perception (which I don't buy) people can't handle a drive that goes a little less far.

That's sad.

[Alfie]

George,

Very sad indeed !


Craig,

I can't work your logic out at all   I'm guessing that you're an individualist and as such, would recommend a day with Ran as a cure (solution) to help you see the light.

There are so many elements involved here and they are all critical to golf's future (IMO). Classic courses ?  every single golf course ; pro golfers ?  every single golfer on the planet ;

...costs, participation, politics, attitudes, perception's, ego's, personal/ wider aims and goals, industry and manufacturing, administration.....it's endless.......

There a lot of misguided, and sometimes dodgy, concerns being shown towards the welfare of the golfer from pro's, experts, & ruling bodies. But that's politics for you !
As I said earlier, about 70% of the golfing population couldn't give a damn about all this fuss re - technology. But their day may come when they will care !
Some people believe what they are told because certain information might come from a "trusted" source ? I don't even trust myself - at times !

night, night,

Alfie

[Craig Sweet]

Alfie...I don't lose much sleep over this issue...I'm sorry. Human nature is always looking to make a "better" mouse trap, and its human nature to want to make money....it's also human nature to want the finest "goodies" and "toys". Funny how money and desire go hand in hand....

Nothing is static...I've accepted that and I move on.

[Sean_A]

Patrick

Sorry, I didn't notice your "boxing" of my comments.  

Your conclusion does not follow your comments logically.  You address each point as an historical reason for reduced membership of golf clubs.  Then your conclusion leaps into the future which may never occur.  You could very well be right, but it is a guess at best.  Unless of course you have a crystal ball...

The question is the reverse of your conclusion.  Does long driving put people off the game?  I don't see any evidence presented in support of answering this question in the positive.  The fact that the ball is going further than ever and the reduction of growth in the game could be merely a coincidence.  I think the other reasons you outlined carry more merit than the distance argument.  Afterall, the game has been getting longer for over 100 years yet there seems to have been some growth in the game during this period.

George

I understand your concern for the great classic courses.  Do you think if distance is cut back 5-10% that the clubs chasing majors will never alter their courses again?  Seems hard to believe if you ask me.  However, the point is, the likes of George Pazin and Sean Arble don't get a vote.  

I think Tommy Mac suggested that perhaps some of these classic courses should have some sort of historical importance protection from alterations.  This would solve the problem if that is altering classics is what people are really worried about.  I don't think these is a snowball's chance in hell a scheme like this would get any form of approval, but I agree with it in theory.  It is easy for me to say, I am not a member of one these joints.  

I do recall not being able to hang a lovely oak door on my west side home in Ann Arbor because it didn't exactly match the period of the home.  Historical preservation you see.  I would have thought a classic course that has held national championships would be far more valuable to the nation than my front door.

Ciao

Sean

[John Kavanaugh]

I just received my USGA renewal notice - FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME - and this was my response:


Dear USGA


Please consider my membership, which I have held since 1994, and that of my wife, Carol, as suspended until you address the issue which is most pressing in golf today, that technology is ruining the game and making the classic courses obsolete, in addition to a host of other problems.

Please take the time to read Geoff Schackelford’s book, “The Future of Golf” and address the problems that he outlines.

Then we will be happy to renew our memberships.


Paul L. Richards

Paul,

I'd like to take this time to thank the USGA for granting Victoria National $25,000 towards our efforts in hosting the 2006 US Senior Am.  What are your plans for the check when the same is sent to Beverly.

[Sean_A]

I just received my USGA renewal notice - FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME - and this was my response:


Dear USGA


Please consider my membership, which I have held since 1994, and that of my wife, Carol, as suspended until you address the issue which is most pressing in golf today, that technology is ruining the game and making the classic courses obsolete, in addition to a host of other problems.

Please take the time to read Geoff Schackelford’s book, “The Future of Golf” and address the problems that he outlines.

Then we will be happy to renew our memberships.


Paul L. Richards

Paul,

I'd like to take this time to thank the USGA for granting Victoria National $25,000 towards our efforts in hosting the 2006 US Senior Am.  What are your plans for the check when the same is sent to Beverly.

This is why I am not interested in being a USGA member.  They collect money from the likes of me and send it to an exclusive club that doesn't want the likes of me to pass through their gates.  I have no interest.    

Ciao

Sean

[PThomas]

and now they are leasing private jets...see G Schackelford's exclusives on his website

[Garland Bayley]

My assumption is that some of you are members of influential clubs, e.g. NGLA

I know many of you like to play the old balata ball.

Couldn't some of your clubs ban together and form the U.S. Traditional Golf Federation and sponsor a championship using balata balls?

[John Kavanaugh]

This is why I am not interested in being a USGA member.  They collect money from the likes of me and send it to an exclusive club that doesn't want the likes of me to pass through their gates.  I have no interest.    

Ciao

Sean

Sean,

You are a friend of mine...you are welcome through the gates of Victoria National any day of the week.  Even if I didn't know you they would let you play if you simply called them up and told them who and what you are.  I don't know what you mean by "the likes of me" comment.  Remember, they let me join knowing fully well who I am.

[JohnV]

Paul,

I'd like to take this time to thank the USGA for granting Victoria National $25,000 towards our efforts in hosting the 2006 US Senior Am.  What are your plans for the check when the same is sent to Beverly.

This is why I am not interested in being a USGA member.  They collect money from the likes of me and send it to an exclusive club that doesn't want the likes of me to pass through their gates.  I have no interest.    

Ciao

Sean

The $25,000 is a small amount that comes nowhere near meeting the expenses that the club incurs in hosting a USGA championship.  If you look at the number of players who enter their championships and multiply it by the entry fees, I think you'd find that it isn't your money that is going to the club, it is theirs.

By the way, for anyone who is a member of the Northern California Golf Association, welcome to the USGA Members Program.  I see that the NCGA is enrolling all its members in the program.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

What do you think it will cost us to host the Senior Am..Don't worry about figuring in lost revenue for the two weeks the course will be closed as I think that will be offset by the excitement created.

[JohnV]

John,

The costs vary tremendously depending on what the club wants to do for the players and officials.  But consider that at the US Mid-Am, there is a players dinner for 400 to 500, a barbeque for a slightly smaller number, breakfast and lunch daily for all players and officials (and sometimes caddies and families.)  The Senior would be smaller because it is only 1/2 the field size.

There are usually temporary staff and overtime costs at both the clubhouse and on the maintenance crew.  There is the cost of lots of other things like signage, programs and the like.

Most clubs get corporate sponsors or wealthy members to contribute to these costs.  The Mid-Am at Stanwich went way over all the numbers of previous mid-ams, but they had so much money donated that they were able to pay their caddies to work as marshals during the finals since they didn't get as many loops as they normally would once match play started to shrink the field.

I don't know the exact costs, but I would guess the budget is usuallly between $100K and $300K for the Senior and almost double that for the Mid-Am.

[John Kavanaugh]

Thanks John..Even if it does cost $1000 per member I think the good outweights the bad.

[Sean Leary]

John,

For what reasons do you think it is good for your club?  

[Sean_A]

Paul,

I'd like to take this time to thank the USGA for granting Victoria National $25,000 towards our efforts in hosting the 2006 US Senior Am.  What are your plans for the check when the same is sent to Beverly.

This is why I am not interested in being a USGA member.  They collect money from the likes of me and send it to an exclusive club that doesn't want the likes of me to pass through their gates.  I have no interest.    

Ciao

Sean

The $25,000 is a small amount that comes nowhere near meeting the expenses that the club incurs in hosting a USGA championship.  If you look at the number of players who enter their championships and multiply it by the entry fees, I think you'd find that it isn't your money that is going to the club, it is theirs.

John Van B

$25,000 from USGA funds is more than nothing, but you are right, it isn't my money because I don't give any to the USGA.  

John K.

Thanks for the invite!  You never know, I amy show up on some of your wet tarmac with a set of spanners in tow looking for a game.  I wasn't selecting your club per se.  VN just happens to be the club of the moment.  I think you understand what I am writing about.  

Ciao

Sean  

[John Kavanaugh]

Sean,

The biggest reason is that it gives the members and employees a positive buzz.  Everything is just a little brighter knowing the boys are coming to town and that reflects back onto every aspect of the club.  We are going to have one hell of a great year...I can just feel it.

[Mike Benham]

Northern California Golf Members, if they read the annual Blue Book, saw this one page announcement:

All NCGA Members Will Become USGA Members

As previously announced, the NCGA is expanding its partnerships with other organizations such as the United States Golf Association. The USGA conducts ten national amateur championships as well as three open championships. As the governing body of golf in the United States, the USGA codifies the Rules of Golf and the handicap system, as well as acting as the testing agency for all new equipment.  The NCGA works closely with the USGA in the administration of all USGA qualifiers such as the US Open and US Amateur. The NCGA and USGA met recently to further strengthen our partnership – the result of which is a new joint program giving all NCGA members a one-year, free membership in the USGA to begin January 1. (Current USGA members will have their membership rolled over for an additional year). This will be a great new benefit to NCGA members and a wonderful opportunity to experience all the USGA does for amateur golf. Members will receive a letter soon detailing this new member benefit.

USGA member benefits include:

    * First priority to purchase U.S. Open tickets.
    * U.S. Open Program
    * A subscription to Inside the USGA - the new USGA publication covering a variety of USGA issues.
    * Personalized USGA bagtag, ID card and decal
    * Special member discounts in the USGA catalog
    * USGA Annual


A question to ask is, how many USGA members were there in NorCal that now do not have to renew their USGA memberships and donations?  

I highly doubt that the NCGA decided to contribute a chunk of their annual dues to the USGA because of the dual-membership so I wonder how much in annual dues will be lost the USGA?

[Sean Leary]

John,

That is the best reason of all.  I just didn't know if it was to attract new members, improve visability for ranking purposes (which would be hard for VN to do), increase membership value or whatever, which is what it seems that other clubs do.  Congrats. We'll have to do a Fazio home and home at Aldarra (maybe before your Bandon trip next year)

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

That is the best reason of all.  I just didn't know if it was to attract new members, improve visability for ranking purposes (which would be hard for VN to do), increase membership value or whatever, which is what it seems that other clubs do.  Congrats. We'll have to do a Fazio home and home at Aldarra (maybe before your Bandon trip next year)

Sean,

If you can put me up or I can do it on a layover I would love to play Aldarra on my trip to Bandon next year.  I hear raving reviews from TNMOGCA.  You should try to get in our group or set up your trip at the same time.  I hope to also fit in Sand Pines next year as one of my highlights of the guys I met was their glowing reviews of the place.  A $60 is does seem to be a steal for the green feeing public.

[JohnV]

A question to ask is, how many USGA members were there in NorCal that now do not have to renew their USGA memberships and donations?  

I highly doubt that the NCGA decided to contribute a chunk of their annual dues to the USGA because of the dual-membership so I wonder how much in annual dues will be lost the USGA?

The NCGA has around 200,000 members.  The USGA had considerably less than 1M going into this year.  Therefore, I'd say that this is a considerable increase in USGA membership.  I'm sure they didn't pay full price for all of them.  The USGA probably offered them a deal, hoping to convince a substantial number to re-up next year.  They haven't offered us any kind of deal like this so I'm just speculating.

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