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Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2005, 04:37:01 PM »
Rick,

Look out, 'cause here comes some free advice.

I worked three years in Tenerife, and visited golf courses Gran Canaria several times. In my professional opinion, good bentgrass greens are possible on Gran Canaria, given the following two conditions:

1. The proper sand and peat are imported. The Canary Islands do not have anything usable for golf greens. Even if you do find the right sand, plan on sifting it yourself on-site, because you won't get the correct particle size distribution. The crushed volcanic rock, or "picon", as it is called, will support bermudagrass with no problem but bentgrass hates it. Peat will absolutely need to come from overseas.

2. Have sweet water. Arid as you are on Gran Canaria, sodic conditions quickly develop. As with the sand, the bermudagrass will readily support it but the bentgrass languishes. Best is a dual irrigation piping system, separating the greens from the rest of the course.

I never had any serious problem with insects on Tenerife, either in bermuda or bentgrass, a few cutworms, no big deal. Also, due to the low humidity, fungal diseases were absent. The only weeds were some Poa in the bermuda in the winter, controlled with simazine, (but if you've got paspalum you can control with salt), and the ever present encroachment of bermudagress into the bent greens.

For greens in the Canaries, I would simply do a dwarf bermuda right on the old crushed lava, use any water available, and have no problems. The winters are so mild there that it won't even go off-color, only slow down a little. But I know how difficult it is to convince the locals of anything but bent on greens. It's a Spanish thing.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2005, 11:06:51 PM »
...what is the simple way to eliminate the bermuda in paspalum?

I would offer that the better action is to allow whchever turgrass survives to be doninant. Let nature choose.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

S. Huffstutler

Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2005, 07:38:24 AM »
If you let nature choose, you are most likely going to end up with Common Bermuda. Be careful when you decide to go to Paspalum, there are issues out there that no one wants to talk about. Beware rose colored glasses.

Steve

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2005, 10:10:11 AM »
There is nothing wrong with common bermudagrass. It rejuvinates better than hybrid varieties, is easier to overseed and is generally much simplier to take care of.

Of course, if you prefer, you could coax whichever becomes dominant by planting that species in whatever variety is desired — hybrid bermudagrass, for example.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2005, 10:53:46 AM »
If you let nature choose, you are most likely going to end up with Common Bermuda. Be careful when you decide to go to Paspalum, there are issues out there that no one wants to talk about. Beware rose colored glasses.

Steve

The only downside we're seeing with ours is that it grows so fast.  For the 2007 Senior PGA and the 2012 PGA, they're talking about putting a little growth retardant on it so that the afternoon rounds will roll close to the same speed as the morning rounds...

Chris Munoz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2005, 10:44:10 PM »
"Be careful when you decide to go to Paspalum, there are issues out there that no one wants to talk about. Beware rose colored glasses."  

Steve could you further go into more details on what you stated.....thanks


Chris Munoz
Christian C. Munoz
Assistant Superintendent Corales
PUNTACANA Resort & Club
www.puntacana.com

Rick Baril

Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2005, 03:31:08 PM »
Steve,
In your case, free advice is welcome, particularly due to your experience in Spain.  Your "picon" comment is duly noted - and on target.  You would have thought we were bad mouthing Catholocism, insisting to keep it out of the seedbed!!

The decision to go with bent is a good example of how an architect can't control all situation or choices related to a golf course.  As I said, I believe eventually this course will convert to Paspalum.  

We are not convinced Paspalum is the univeral answer for courses in warm season climates and/or courses with suspect water availablility/conditions.  But, our research showed promise and we are having good results, for now.


S. Huffstutler

Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2005, 06:56:08 PM »
"Be careful when you decide to go to Paspalum, there are issues out there that no one wants to talk about. Beware rose colored glasses."  

Steve could you further go into more details on what you stated.....thanks


Chris Munoz


Paspalum is being heavily marketed right now as the end all and be all of warm season turfs. When you see it, you instantly want it on your golf course....the ball sits up very nicely, it stripes up nice and if you aren't afraid to take a cut at the ball, it is fun to play on, but don't choose it for the wrong reasons is all I'm saying. Choose it because the conditions demand it and remember that even though Bermuda is much maligned, it is pretty salt tolerant, very aggressive and relatively easy to take care of. There is nothing uglier than Common Bermuda, in my opinion except a Common Bermuda infestation of a stand of Paspalum. Depending on the growing environment, Bermuda is mush less likely to suffer disease problems. Do your homework.

Regards

Steve

Chris Munoz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2006, 07:59:04 PM »
Well I am down in the Dominican Republic.  What great weather....Don't have to worry about the snow or any freezing rain or sleet.  Just want to know what superintendents are using to mow paspalum fairways????We are in the middle of making a decision of turf equipment, we will be using for Corales Golf Club and the PB Dye La Cana Golf Club.  It is between Toro and Jacobsen..

Christian C. Munoz
Assistant Superintendent Corales
PUNTACANA Resort & Club
www.puntacana.com

Mark Brown

Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2006, 10:58:10 PM »
Paspalum does not provide firm turf conditions conducive to playing the ground game. It's a bit sticky and soft, and that's reason enough for me not to use it.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2006, 10:54:57 PM »
Mark — Then you have not experienced dwarf varieties of Paspalum.

On pure sand it has an amazing feel and is very fast. Tight lies are improved by the sturdy blade — but at less than 1/2-inch, it plays like closely mowed bentgrass or fescue.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Micah Woods

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seashore Paspalum
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2006, 08:45:22 AM »
I have seen seashore paspalum play relatively firm, similar to a well-irrigated kentucky bluegrass fairway. There is no doubt that seashore paspalum produces a greener surface than bermuda or zoysia. But I don't think the currently available seashore paspalum cultivars can be maintained as dry as can bermuda.

-Micah

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