[Jordan Wall]

What are features on short par-4's that you guys like and/or dislike.  What makes a good short par-4???  I really need some help on this one guys...

By the way this par-4 would be drivable

[Tim Bert]

I like some elevation change in my short par 4s.

I like a nice, downhill hole that is slightly beyond what I normally think I can drive, but has some contours in the fairway that could help out if I get the right bounce.  (No bunkers directly in front of this one please, though some bunkers along the fairway or beside the green are okay.)  This one could play just under or just over 300 yards from my tees (typically not the tips, but the standard mens tees at many courses) depending upon how much elevation change there is.

I also enjoy a short uphiller that makes me feel like I need to swing a little harder than I really do in order to reach the green.  This one could have some bunkering in front, but there should be a reasonable sized section in front of the green where I can run it up if I strike it where I want it.  I like this one to be short enough that it is possible I could run through the green off the back.  The green would be sloped from back to front, so I pay the price coming back if I blow through it on the drive.  This one might play any where from 240 to 270.  

Both should give me a reasonable option to play an iron off the tee if I'm not feeling particularly masculine that day.

[Mike McGuire]

In the words of the immortal AM in 19something  " considering the design of a hole which one is only asked to make a drive and a short pitch, It it not imperative to consider how a youngster would negotiate it"

[Jordan Wall]

its only 9:51 where I live, not in the AM and I am designing my hole for my interniship application

[Jordan Wall]

But I'll be damned if your right...I would drive the green no matter what

[Mike Dickson]

You need options.  Wide fairways and a few strategic bunkers are good ingredients.  Typically you want to associate some risk in driving the green.  This could range from water/sand hazards to difficult terrain.  Sometimes visual deception is effective: making the fairway seem smaller than it actually is by hiding some of it behind a hill or underbrush.

Ultimately, short par 4s demand originality from the architect.

[Jordan Wall]

So far I have a green to the right of the fairway.  To drive the green, you have to carry 240 over a bunker and then you catch a downslope in a small fairway twenty paces short of the green.  If you hit the ball to far, there are two greenside bunkers.  One on the left and one on the right kinda behind the green.  If you catch the edge of the green the ball will trickle down a slope and into the bunker.  In the middle of the green there will be a knob used to push balls, especially ones trying to drive the green, to left and back left pins, because you cannot carry the left-hand bunker and hope the ball will stick with a driver or three wood.  The tee box is aimed toward the fairway to provide misdirection for the greedy golfer as the green is 15 paces to the right of the fairway and the tee box.  If you do decide to lay up, the best option would be with a 9-iron or pitching wedge to the 150-yard mark, which is about the only flat spot in the fairway.  If you lay up 100-yards and in, you will have a downhill or sidehill lie to an elevated green.  At the 50-yard mark the fairway is sloped at a downslope toward the green, which is elevated about 12 feet, so stopping a pitch would be difficult unless you use the knob in the green.  That is pretty much what I have now, plus some OB but the hole is about 40 yards wide and 270-yards in length so it doesnt penalize too much...Any more suggestions

[Tom_Doak]

It's cool for the fairway on a short par-4 to be wide, sometimes.  But not all the time.

Think about the best short par-4's you can.  I'll name a few from my favorite courses:

Crystal Downs 5, 7, 15, 17
Pine Valley 2, 8, 12, 17
Merion 1, 7, 8, 10, 11
Cypress Point 8, 9, 13
St. Andrews 3, 12, 16, 18
National Golf Links 1, 2, 14, 17
Pacific Dunes 1, 2, 6, 16

They certainly aren't all tight, tree-lined holes, but they aren't all wide open, either.  I really like the set at Crystal Downs.  You can try to take a driver and smash it up close to the green but you can get in real trouble on all of them if you fail; and if you lay back there is topography in the landing area, so if you don't hit your tee shot solidly you have a tough lie for the pitch shot.

[Tim Gavrich]

Jordan--
    Which hole are you redesigning?  Perhaps if you could find a couple good pictures, we could help you out a little.

I may be submitting a similar query in the near future.

[Brian Noser]

Jordan the Tour Players would eat that up at 270. Even with poor conditions.

[Jordan Wall]

http://nilegolf.com/course.html

it's the first hole...its a muni thats only 4300 yards or so and even I can eat that course up brian    The picture is the first on the course profile, if you can call it that...

The four holes I have been studying the most in my redesign scheme have been PV 17, Crystal Downs 17, NGLA 1, and CPC 9.  Others too, but plenty have been written on those holes so they are easy to study

[David Druzisky]

Jordon,

I find that designing short par 4's are as much fun as playing them.  They are also very demanding to design at times because to be well done they must be very dynamic with the best having many layers.

The hole you are evisioning, can you see the green surface from the tees?  The best short 4's in my opinion change day to day depending on pin location/greeen design, and length.  (plus wind etc)  For instance, maybe the longer hitter can drive it with good execution but there is actally one pin not worth driving.  That pin may have another location to hit a long drive to vs a lay-up that has risk but will provide the best approach angle that day.  Think multi options for all levels of play.  Not just execution based penality.

Of course, too often the shot par 4 has a borring lay-up option followed by a flip wedge or something.

Also, notice Toms list of short 4's.  Not much new stuf on that list.

DbD

[ChipOat]

Jordan:

At least 2-3 pretty good threads on this in the last 3 years or so.  I started one of them a couple years back that I believe was called "Really Short Par 4's" or something like that.

There were a couple of others after that which were at least as good.

I don't know how to quickly scan the archives but, if you do, they're there somewhere.  Tom Paul was a strong contributor to all of them (what a surprise!).

[wsmorrison]

Jordan,

Make sure you study for this or future benefit the 315 yard 10th at Riviera.  I've not played it but from my limited vantage point and from the advice of those that know, it seems worthy of an early and careful study.  Ran's write-up in the Courses by Country section gives you a good start.  Good luck.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()