[Steve_Roths]

I am playing here in January and don't know much about it.  Has anyone here played it?  I believe it is a Dick Wilson design and is similar to Deepdale with its bunkering and raised greens.  Any feedback as to what I should keep an eye out for would be appreciated.  

[jim_lewis]

Steve:

Pine Tree is a stern test, especially when the wind blows, which is most of the time. The course is flat but almost all of the greens are raised with front bunkers. Work on hitting your irons high and your sand game.

I very fine course with the best dining room in the county.

[TEPaul]

Steve:

My Dad was one of the guys who founded Pine Tree but to be perfectly honest I don't know all that much about the golf course. I've played the thing about a half dozen times over the last forty years but that won't do much for you.

Like Deepdale?? I don't know that I'd say that. It's Wilson alright, matter of fact I think he died before it was completed---drank himself to death and Joe Lee probably finished it. Some have called it one of the best totally flat-land courses anywhere. What to look for there is Wilson's use of bunkering in front of greens---eg some of it are examples of a bit of the old run-up architecture and very much the beginning of the aerial game. I call Dick Wilson's style "transition architecture" (from the gound game to the aerial game). One hole even has a bunker in the middle of the approach and run-up on either side. (I doubt that would work very well.   ).

The guy on here who could probably tell you the most about Pine Tree is Pat Mucci---he belongs to the place. He'll see this thread eventually and he'll tell you everything you want to know about Pine Tree even if about 98% of what he tells you will be wrong.

[Steve_Roths]

Thanks TEPaul.  I will await Mr. Mucci's accurate report.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

I think the only similarity between Deepdale and Pine Tree is the name of the architect that designed them.

I haven't been to Pine Tree this year but others who have tell me it's in great shape.

Hurricane Wilma took down a lot of trees, so it's more open than usual.

It's an aerial golf course with nice diversity amongst long and short holes.

I think you'll like the stretch of # 13, # 14 and # 15, all short holes that can be a lot of fun, yet challenging.

The wind can be a factor.
The prevailing wind is usually out of the southeast which makes # 1 and # 2 tough starting holes and # 18 a tough finishing hole.

I don't want to predispose your opinions.

I think the best bet is for you to play the golf course and then tell us what you thought of it.

Ran's played it, but, unfortunately, he didn't feature it under the courses by country section.  I took him to the ballet and then to the cleaners so he had neither the inclination, money or time to write it up.  Perhaps he'll do it in 2006.

[TEPaul]

"Steve,
I haven't been to Pine Tree this year but others who have tell me it's in great shape."

Patrick:

You haven't been to Pine Tree this year? Well, in that case, due to the percentage of inaccurate information on golf architecture you spew out on here, and despite the fact that you belong to Pine Tree, would you like me to explain to you how to find the place?

[Jerry Kluger]

Wasn't there some famous golfer who thought it was the best flat course he ever played?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jerry

I think Sam Snead said that.

Steve

[SPDB]

Wasn't there some famous golfer who thought it was the best flat course he ever played?

Are you sure they weren't talking about Seminole?  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here are excerpts from Joe Passov's article about Joe Lee in Travel and Leisure Golf Nov 2003:

Joe Lee's Legacy
Overlooked for decades, the straightforward courses he and Dick Wilson designed are once again being given their due.
by Joe Passov

One day early in 1962, Ben Hogan opted out of his usual round at Seminole Golf Club in North Palm Beach, Florida, to try a new course located a few Sunshine State Parkway exits to the south called Pine Tree. Word had spread that this Dick Wilson-Joe Lee design was something special, but final judgment would have to wait until golf's purest shot maker had had his turn. The verdict? Hogan scraped it around in seventy-three, one over par, then wrote in the club's guest book, "The best course I have ever seen."

So, whatever happened to Pine Tree?

A young Jack Nicklaus played Pine Tree and called it "a truly great course." Sam Snead called it "the best golf course in the South" and became a dues-paying member, as did fellow Hall of Famers Mickey Wright and Louise Suggs. Indeed, Pine Tree was the "it" course of 1962, the Pacific Dunes of its day. Golf Digest ranked Pine Tree in the top ten in the U.S. in 1969, and it remained in the top thirty through 1984. By 1993, however, it had plummeted out of the top 100......

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Shaffer,

I thought that Hogan commented that it was the best FLAT course he had ever played/seen.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Pat

You should know. Snead just called it "the best course in the south." Unless Passov got the quote wrong, Hogan called it "the best course I've ever seen." Maybe Passov omitted "flat" from the quote.

Steve

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Just found this:

Ben Hogan once called Pine Tree "the best flat course in the world." One of the reasons is that architect Dick Wilson is remembered for being able to defend a green with the best golf course designers in the world. No further evidence is need than his work at Pine Tree where each approach must be played with pinpoint accuracy.

Known as a "player's club," Pine Tree members were still taken a little aback when fellow member Sam Snead entered the club championship in 1979. Despite the protestations from his fellow members, Snead played and won the stroke-play event-only to hand the trophy over to the runner-up at the awards ceremony. Sensing Snead might do just that, the club had a second trophy at the ready to give to Snead.

[Lawrence Largent]

When I made the journey to South Florida last January I was told that Hogan said it was the Best second shot course that he had ever played.

Lawrence

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Shaffer,

I believe it was Ed Tutwiler who lost to Snead.
Both of their names appear on the club championship board.

I had the same fate befall me when my putting went even further south and I lost in the finals to a Pro a few years ago.
Unfortunately, his name is the only name on the club championship board for that year.

I should have putted better.

A few years ago their were 58 or 64 players at 4 or better.

20 at 2 or better and 10 at Zero or better.

That's pretty strong competition and I can't think of another club with that handicap demographic.

Lawrence,

I'd say that the approach shots to the greens are very challenging, especially when the wind is up, which is often.

[Jim Nugent]

With all the raves from so many great players, with the high ranking the club once enjoyed, why did it fall so far in the ratings?  Was that hyperbole before...have newer courses come up that are better...have the criteria for greatness changed?

Any of you who have played it consider it a top 100 course?  Worse or better?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Nugent,

Personally, I've never understood its fall from grace.

My biased opinion is that the raters tastes have changed because the routing and the architecture sure haven't.

[RT]

I think all my time lurking around this website, and all the times Pine Tree has come up, I think there has never been any (or there have been few) pictures I can recall being posted too.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

RT

Just go to the website and take a tour of the course:

www.pinetreegolfclub.net

[Jerry Kluger]

I knew with a little nudging that Patrick would come through. It is a wonderful course and a heck of a lot of fun to play.

[John Kirk]

Really classy and understated clubhouse too.  I had a memorable day there last March.

[Sean_A]

Mark B

Somebody with influence must like San Lorenzo.  Since I can remember it has been rated top 10 or thereabouts in Europe.  

Ciao

Sean

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Shaffer,

I believe that Pine Tree was primarily Dick Wilson's design work and that Joe Lee and Robert Von Hagge were his assistants at the time.

I also believe that Joe Lee revised the 10th hole, which was again revised by Ron Forse not long ago.

It's a great course to walk and has a terrific mixture of short and long holes.  I find the short holes great fun to play, yet they retain their challenge.

Into the prevailing wind, # 8 is one of my favorites.
It's the kind of hole that looking at the scorecard will only serve to get you into trouble, which is also true of the 13th, 14th and 15th.

Starting off on #'s 1 & 2 into the prevailing wind will provide an immediate test and can set the tempo for the entire round.
Finishing into the prevailing wind on # 18 doesn't allow you to limp home.

# 12 also plays into the prevailing wind and is a great par 4.

Steve should have a great time if the weather co-operates.

Steve Roths,

Choose your tees...... wisely  

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