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Dan_Callahan

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Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2005, 09:18:34 AM »
Jim,

In comparing the relative cost of golf to skiing, I am simply looking at people in the Denver area who can make day trips (and there are hundreds of thousands of them).

Obviously, most private golf club members join courses that are in their immediate area. (Let's leave out national memberships and the handful of blue bloods and nouveau riche who hold concurrent memberships at Nantucket, Cypress and Seminole.)

When you compare the annual cost of membership to a world class private club to a season pass at a world class mountain (a pass that actually gives you access to numerous world class mountains), you see that golf is exponentially more expensive.

Plus, with golf you constantly have to replace all the damn lost balls.

Jim Nugent

Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2005, 09:58:27 AM »


When you compare the annual cost of membership to a world class private club to a season pass at a world class mountain (a pass that actually gives you access to numerous world class mountains), you see that golf is exponentially more expensive.


Without a doubt.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2005, 12:18:03 PM »
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At $100 a day, with lodging included (sort of to my surprise), skiing is a doggone bargain compared to golf- Shivas

You have to check out some pricing. Take the Legends Resort in Myrtle Beach for example, you can stay-and-play for 3 nights/3 rounds in early September for $169. Stay later in Sept and it costs $273. They also have one night packages that start around $69 in early Sept.

There are numerous other situations you can find for under $100 a day, you just have to look.
 

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2005, 03:47:53 PM »
I play with my two sons, 9 and 12, and when I go away somewhere warm for Spring break or take a week in the Summer, I have to play in the afternoon at courses that have junior rates or it can be a very expensive proposition.  The best place I have found in that regard is Kiawah - good afternoon rates and great junior rates.  

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2005, 04:57:38 PM »
Shivas,

They really are not that comparable. Due to their size and locations, almost every ski area, especially the big ones, are on National Park Service land, so they can't be private. Killington for example is in Green Mountain National Park. They are leasing the land, and as such they have to be open to the public. There is a small but growing market for private ski areas such as Quechee Club in Vermont which also has 2 golf courses. There is a very big money golf and ski club real estate in Jackson Hole, that also has its own ski area, but I forget the name.

http://www.quecheeclub.com/winteract.cfm

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2005, 05:33:48 PM »
Don't the big money guys hire a helicopter and ski off piste "the way it used to be in Austria"?

I also think we should relate the cost of a round of golf to spectator costs for other sports.  I prefer to play sport to sitting and watching others and so I am constantly amazed how much people pay for about 90 mins “entertainment” in uncomfortable stadiums miles from home. Where you can actually get tickets you’re going to pay £45 to watch a London premiership football match.  Call it an international and for rugby or soccer you can easily add £10 to that.  90% of Golf courses in GB & I are cheaper on a comparative membership vs. premiership season ticket for weekly visits to either.

Take it further, I don't think  you can compare a trip to the local multiplex but there are a large number of people who go to a concert or play at least once a month.  This week I took the wife to see Rod Stewart. Seats alongside the stage (i.e. not top price) were £65 each and we could buy an A4 soft back colour souvenir programme for 'only' £15.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Incidentally the crowd were in fine voice, I’d hate to think how much he’d charge if he had to sing for the whole evening.)

Want to see Cecilia Bartoli or Pavarotti at Covent Garden and its north of £250 each, and that’s before you pay for a hotel room that night – and now the price gets really scary.

I’m going to post on the price of clubs and balls soon, and in truth they’ve never been cheaper.  Golf is just something else that is fighting for people’s money.  For something you’re committed to I think its costs are in line with the alternatives, but there are just so many punters to go round.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 05:34:22 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2005, 06:59:27 PM »

You have to play Game X for at least 5 years before you'll be any good at all at it. .
   
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Fantastic that means next July there's hope (again)!
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2005, 07:14:10 PM »
In my firm we have a secretary who has a daughter who has done some fill in work for us and to quote TEP "a real hottie". When the secretary met my daughter (circa 12-13 years old) she said "get her interested in horse’s quick, if she's like mine she won't look at boys until she's 21 and you've got past the worst".  Listening in to this was one of our manual workers - who was really quiet and non confrontational - but she was also a horsewoman of some standing - competed at national level. She asked me if she could have a word with me outside. I had no idea what to expect but what I got was 5 mins straight from the heart "If you let her get involved with Horses she's gonna be broke - you'll soon get fed up with paying - and dirty and smelly. She’ll have no free time and her best friends won’t be able to talk back to her" this went on for some time and I've never seen her so animated about anything.

Once you're addicted you'll give up whatever money you have in the hope your passion will bring you happiness. I still can’t see golf as any more expensive than any other addiction.  You'll spend all the disposable income you can ill afford, to satisfy that urge.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2005, 09:11:32 PM »
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There's a game out there.  Call it Game X.  You have to play Game X for at least 5 years before you'll be any good at all at it.  Until then, it will frustrate the hell out of you.  If you want to get good at Game X, you'll probably have to take Game X lessons at $120 an hour once a week or so for a few years.
There's a game out there.  Call it Game Y. You only have to play Game Y for at least 4 hours before you realize you'll never be any good at it. After that it will never again frustrate the hell out of you.  You never waste money taking Game Y lessons, what moron would ever spend $120 an hour once a week or so for a few years to learn a game?  
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Basic implements for Game X cost $1000.  You will lose one or two Game X Balls every time you play, at least.  They cost $3 each.  Some guys lose 6 balls every time they play.
 
Basic implements for Game Y cost $100 at the bargain barn.  You will lose one or two Game Y balls every time you play, at least.They cost $.33 each at Bob's Experienced Ball Bin.  Some guys lose 6 balls every time they play but you usually find a dozen while looking for your strays.
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Even though Game X can be played on public areas, you need to reserve the playing field for Game X.  At the best Game X sites, that runs north of $100 per play.  You'll probably play about 50 times a year.
 
Even though Game Y can be played on public areas, you seldom need to reserve the playing field for Game Y because you play off peak. At the best Game X sites, the price runs north of $100 per play but you find fun Game Y sites that cost around $25.00 in the afternoon.  You'll probably play about 50 times a year or more at those prices.
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You'll practice Game X once or twice a week for another $10 each time you practice.

You'll never have to practice Game Y once or twice a week, why pay another $10 each time to practice? It's not like it's going to help.
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If you don't like the public route, there are Game X clubs.  They cost $50K to join and about $20K a year when all is said and done.  Some cost far more to join and are more expensive annually.  Every once in a while your Game X Club will send you a bill for $10-20K so they can change the drapes in the money-losing dining room or install a new overwatering system (which they'll call a sprinkler system) or a new blacktop upon which they will promptly overpaint the parking lot because their membership apparently hasn't figured out how to pull into a parking space after 40 years of trying.
You like public golf but heard there are clubs that cost 50K to join and about $20K a year when all is said and done. Some cost far more to join and are more expensive annually. You wonder why people spend that kind of money on golf.
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Once you really love Game X, you'll fly all over the country and if you're a real fanatic, you'll fly all around the world to play Game X in different places.  That'll cost you $5K a year, minimum.
You really love Game Y buy you wouldn't fly all over the country to play it and you surely wouldn't fly all around the world to play it, no way, hell that'd cost you $5K a year, minimum.
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Your wife will get jealous of Game X.  To mollify her, you will increase your blow-up point over annual wifely discretionary fiscal waste by a good $5-10K before you blow your stack over $700 purses and $400 shoes and such.
Your wife will never get jealous of Game Y, she's too happy having you out of the house. It gives her a chance to go shopping with her girlfriends and buy out the Dollar Store.
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After every time you play Game X, you will probably spend $20 or so on drinks and bad appetizers.
After every time you play Game Y, you will probably spend $5 or so on a Genny and a dog.
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Once you become known as a good Game X player, your business and personal lives become intertwined with Game X.  You will be in hot demand for non-productive afternoons of hookey and work late at night to make up for lost time.  You will be peer pressured to play twice on weekends.  Because your wife and children will be jealous of your time, you will take them to all sorts of expensive make-up activities.
You will never become known as a good Game Y player but you're in hot demand for non-productive afternoons of hookey because you're a good egg. You play twice on weekends because your wife and children like to visit her mother.  You gladly give them the gas money and a few bucks for incidentals.  

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Anybody want to be the first guy to take up Game X?
Anybody want to be the first guy to give up Game Y?
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim Nugent

Re:Is golf really that expensive in relative terms?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2005, 01:37:56 AM »
Your wife will never get jealous of Game Y, she's too happy having you out of the house. It gives her a chance to go shopping with her girlfriends and buy out the Dollar Store.

I played almost exclusively game Y.  The part above reminds me of the old joke, though...

It's raining hard, and the diehard golfer comes home hours early from his Saturday morning round.  He knows his wife will still be asleep -- he decides to kick off the weekend with some romantic sparks.  It is pitch black as he climbs into bed.  His wife awakens to his touch and says, "Thank God you're here.  Can you believe it, the asshole is out playing golf in this weather!"

 


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