[cary lichtenstein]

Can someone tell me what it costs to build a first class golf course, on a flat piece of Florida land, no wet lands. assuming moving about 1 million feet of earth in the project. Want a real rolling course.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Can't tell you exactly but can bracket it for you...  $1 to $62 million!    The $1 price tag (pro bono work from Dye on donated land - he has done several).  The $62M is Shadow Creek.

In all seriousness I love Doak's equation of 2/2/2.  $2M to buy the land, $2M to build the course and $2M to build the clubhouse and infrastructure.  Any more adds to greens fees.

JC

[ian]

The irrigation is a million alone, then comes the drainage, etc. etc.

There is no answer without a site, a routing and an understanding of the scope.

[jg7236]

Shadow Creek didn't cost $62 million, it cost $46 million, but no worries, a little off.

[Tyler Kearns]

Quasssi,
      Eloraborating a little on the Doak 2/2/2 eqaution, if this is to be a public course, the general rule of thumb is $10 green fee for every $1 million spent on the course. Thus using the above equation, $6 million course, $60 green fees. At the end of the day, it really depends on who is going to be paying to play the course, and/or what is an acceptable green fee/membership for the specific Florida location.

Tyler Kearns

[cary lichtenstein]

This is to be a private course. Small clubhouse. Men's only.Lot of real good players. Looking for walkable, exciting course. Lots of trees that can be moved.

[Brian Phillips]

Quasssi,

To get a ballpark figure you need to get hold of an architect all of you agree on that you like.  Once chosen have a meeting the chosen person or even persons and they will be able to come up with an approx. price.

You have a few to choose from on this site.  Probably best to choose an architect that is also used to working in Florida.  

Cheers

Brian Phillips.

[Slag_Bandoon]

  I suggest reading the book "Driving the Green" by John Strawn.  It's a report, well written, on the development of Iron Horse Golf Course/Community in Florida.  It gives a complete story.

[A_Clay_Man]

Boy what a good question. I suppose the answer is directly proportional to how much sweat equity you are talkin about. And I know in florida it's very hard to get people who will work. Your probably looking at hiring the whole thing out and letting someone else sweat the small stuff and that implies expensive.

I'd guess the minimum could be as low as $700,00 but unlikely with a million cft to move and who knows the max, whatever they charge. I'd guess close to ten.

[JWL>]

First of all, I don't think a million feet of earth movement will get you the final terrain you desire.  You will probably move a minimum of 500,000 cubic yards of earth, including digging lakes and ponds for irrigation and drainage on a flat site.
Cost in Florida to move soil, presuming it is sand will be about $1/cubic yard.  Irrigation will be one million plus.  These are the major areas where costs can get out of line.  All other line items are strictly dependent on how you determine "first class facility", but cost are generally consistent and determined by quantity, length, acreage, etc.
Hope this helps a little.

[Bill_McBride]

And given the high water table typical of low elevation Florida, the million yards will probably be all fill, not much cut available except out of ponds for irrigation.  For commercial construction here in Pensacola, we are looking more at $6/CY to bring in fill.  It might be better to design a low profile course with interesting greens complexes and fun, tricky angles.

[Forrest Richardson]

Check out:

<www.golfcourse1.com>

I've built 18-holes with automatic irrigation on a verrrrrry flat piece of land for $2.2 million (1993). We moved 350,000 cubic yards of material. Not an ideal budget, but it worked. This was fro the course only.

My next low cost hat trick was $2.7 million for 20 holes (The Hideout, Utah). This site was pristine, a mature forest and meadow, and it provided a natural site. This was also for the course only. (A 3-hole youth loop uses No. 10 and two separate holes.)

Here in the West we generally need about $3-5 million, especially when we have to landscape land that is not covered in turf -- e.g., you may have 175 acres in land, but only 90 acres in turf. The 85 acreas will blow away if it had to be disturbed during construction, or if it was barren to begin with. That can often consume $1 million. In Florida you will not have this to overcome, but rather the converse challenge of having to deal with different drainage matters and high water tables.

What is realistic? Good advise was to consult an architect. get one who is familiar with Florida and especially someone you can get along with. Remember: Everything you do on paper can be changed, tweaked and fixed, but not much once you commit to the land.

Good luck.

[Steve Okula]

I see it all the time, the maintenance facility and equipment is left as an afterthought. From the minute you plant the first sprig, you will be forever in the maintenance business. You had better organize the equipment, staff, shop, fuel and fertilizer storage, etc. BEFORE you start planting.

Triplex greensmowers are over $20,000, fairway units $50,000, you'd better plan on at least 500,000 for maintenance plant, but probably closer to a cool million.

[Tom Doak]

Out of fifteen courses, we've built nine for under $3 million construction budgets, including our three highest-ranked courses to date.  I think that qualifies us as cost-conscious.  However, to move 1 million yards of earth at Texas Tech and put in a $2 million plus irrigation system, we wound up with a $7.something million budget.

You can spend anything you can imagine ... it just depends on what your vision is, and how important visuals are as compared with the golfing demands of the course.

[Brian Phillips]

Tom,

This is where I think the US has just gone mad.  I don't think there is justification for $2 million irrigation system anywhere.  

I haven't worked that long (as you know) as a designer or constructor but I just can't get in my head that it is necessary for that amount of irrigation.

The largest Jeremy and I have designed for in construction is $2.7 million and that includes irrigation.

That may make a lot of people laugh but I doubt that we have ever gone over $500 000 in irrigation.  The average hourly rate for a labourer in Norway is never less than $21.  

I just can't get around the figures it costs to build in the States when a lot of constructors use very low labour costs.

Brian.

[Forrest Richardson]

About $800,000 to $1,000,000 is the low for a "west region US" irrigation system. This assumes coverage for 90-acres. There are all sorts of factors: effluent water filters, sulpher burners, dual zones (occasionally for delivering potable water to greens), control (for water conservation), etc.

I'm not happy about it either. It frustrates us to know that of a $3 million project, 1/3 is for irrigation. However, in areas where the rainfall is only a few inches (8" annual in Phoenix, for example) the irrigation system is in many ways the lifeblood of the course.

We are working on a Mexican project currently. Annual rainfall: 2"!

[Larry_Rodgers]

Yes folks when you take a very large piece of property in west Texas, you need irrigation to grow the turf and landscape. The irrigation system at Texas Tech, at just under $2 million was a bargain considering the scope of the project. In west Texas the wind has been known to blow and dry vegitation out quickly without proper irrigation the turf will not recover in a timely manner. When compared to other projects in the US, the cost was less than $10,000 per irrigated acre.

This is alot of money and in most places the cost of the irrigation system could be thought of, as an insurance policy. How much of the site do you want to insure healthy vegitation exists? That cost will range from $8,000 to $22,000 per acre.

Onto your question about costs in Florida the irrigation system should cost about $10,000 per irrigated acre. This type of system would use normal "well" water. In the event the need for a desalinization plant or other expensive components are required due to environmental issues the cost goes up directly.

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