[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Patrick -

Quote from Mr. Mucci:
"James Keever,

The green at # 17 at Yale is totally different than the green at # 16 at Pine Valley.

The green at # 17 at Yale is similar to the green at # 11 at NGLA, a double plateau.

In addition, the tee shot at # 17 at Yale and # 16 at Pine Valley are totally different.

At # 17 at Yale you're hitting sharply uphill even though the top of the facing hill has been scalped down.  At # 16 at Pine Valley you're hitting down to the fairway.

The two holes are totally different."
end quote.

Patrick -

In a literal sense, I agree with your stark analysis.

In a figurative sense, I see similarities in the holes with:

1)  Their blind tee shots favoring the right center,
2)  Their downhill second shots,
3)  Their obstacles short/left (Principal's nose at TC@Y vs. Trees encroaching from right at PVGC (Are those trees still there?  I loved how they used to bring the pond right into play)
4)  Their overall green shapes - longer front to back on the right/thinner to the left,
5)  An amazing amount of pinable placements on both greens,
6)  The severe penalty to the right side of the green with a bail out left area, as well as,
7)  The next tee is immediately adjacent to left.

Patrick, let's call them cousins instead of sisters.

What do you think after these thoughts?

JWK

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick -

In a literal sense, I agree with your stark analysis.

In a figurative sense, I see similarities in the holes with:

1)  Their blind tee shots favoring the right center,
# 17 at Yale doesn't present the diagonal option and decision.
It's basically a pass-fail situation.
The golfer has no clue as to a preferable side.
And, the tee shot isn't blind at # 16 at PV.[/color]
2)  Their downhill second shots,Agreed[/color]
3)  Their obstacles short/left (Principal's nose at TC@Y vs. Trees encroaching from right at PVGC (Are those trees still there?  

While there's a narrowing of the fairway, it's still quite wide at the front of the green at # 16 at PV and balls hit short can roll unimpeded to the green.  That isn't the case at # 17 at Yale.[/color]

I loved how they used to bring the pond right into play)
Agreed, I think the right side pin position also puts more demand on the drive.[/color]

4)  Their overall green shapes - longer front to back on the right/thinner to the left,

I find their green shapes vastly different.
On # 16 at PV the rear 1/4 to 1/3 of the green slopes upward forming a backstop and that portion of the green is pretty much uncupable.  The left side plateau is radically different from # 16 at PV.[/color]

5)  An amazing amount of pinable placements on both greens,
Both are large and have ample hole locations, but the rear of # 16 at Pine Valley can't be cupped at decent to fast speeds.
I see more contouring in the 17th at Yale.[/color]

6)  The severe penalty to the right side of the green with a bail out left area, as well as,
# 16 at PV presents a severe penalty for going right, the bunker right on # 17 isn't as dire.[/color]

7)  The next tee is immediately adjacent to left.
There is a tee nestled into the green complex at # 17 at Yale.

It's a little further to the tee adjacent to the old water wheel at PV and a lot further to the tee on top of the hill at Yale..[/color]

Patrick, let's call them cousins instead of sisters.
Perhaps, distant cousins.  [/color]

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