Huh? I agree that pins that are absolutely stupid to go at are great, but not for the reason you're talking about. Dave, sometimes I think you just say stuff for the sake of the argument and this is one of them. If a pin is an idiot play because the birdie putt is an absolute bitch, then every other putt on the green is an absolute bitch too because the road to the hole ALWAYS travels through that bitch of a putt area. This means that your supposedly safe play is just a longer version of an impossible putt! Congratulations for making the hole even HARDER by playing "safe".
[My bold]
Jeez Shivas, only a rater for a year and already you've lost your imagination. Be careful or next will be your sense of humor. Sometimes a safer play leaves a longer but less dangerous birdie putt.
Sucker pins are sucker pins not because the short putt even after a successful shot is so damn hard that the shot isn't worth doing, but rather because the penalties of the missed shot are so severe.
Au contraire mon frere. Sometimes the consequences of a missed shot are severe
and the putt is more frightening than it would be from a safer spot on the green. This is especially so when the difficulty of the shot forces the golfer to end up on the up side of a fast sloping green.
Did you happen to catch any of the US Open? It seemed there were many locations where the golfer was better off further away with a good angle from which to putt, rather than risking trouble or a tough putt by trying to get it close.
In other words, if a pin is tucked in place where the green slopes so hard that even a shot stuffed to 4 feet is lucky to walk away with 3, then the poor slob who plays to the fat side of the green is fricking guaranteed a 4 because his first putt is going to get up near the hole and then take off like a scalded cat. Basically, what you're describing is a situation where YOU'D BETTER fricking go at the flag because that's your only chance! Maybe I"m misunderstanding you....gimme an example of a sucker pin position that's a sucker pin position not becasue the penalty for the missed shot is severe, but rather, because the penalty for even a successful shot is severe enough to make the player not hit the shot. That makes no sense to me.
Well I am sure such holes exist-- Any pin set on an increasing slope, where a ball hit close will most likely have to be above the hole because the increasing slope below the hole would likely carry the ball far away. It is easier to hold a slope putting up the slope than down it-- That inertia thing, I think. Seems like there would be alot of these pins at NGLA.
But I was thinking of a hole that has a somewhat severe potential penalty from the tee
and has a very severe putt-- a possible birdie, but a possible three putt as well.
Rustic Canyon No. 8: While I like it, I'll stay out of the "great" par three nominations. I mention it because I am familiar enough with it to suspect that it does fit my description. Pictured with the subject left pin (from Ran's review) . . . .
The left plateau is small, a miss short finds what may be the most difficult bunker on the course, left and long are down the hill with a pitch which will feed well away from the pin. A miss even slightly right will feed down the slope into the middle bowl of the green.
The golfer can get the ball onto the left plateau, but there isnt much room to get it on the plateau and short of the pin. So most balls end up above the pin, especially if the pin is in the first 1/3 of this small area. The problem is that the slope from back to front and a bit of side slope toward the front middle make it a very difficult putt from past the pin, and making a three putt possible whenever the golfer does anything but lag, no matter how short the putt.
A safer tee shot is more toward the middle (or left center) and just on the green. This leaves a putt that is somewhat against the fall line-- A difficult putt to make but definitely possible to leave close enough (and below) for the par. Hitting it just onto the middle of the green brings the risk of hitting it short, but the Beast Bunker guards the left, not the middle.
Personally, if I absolutely needed a par on this hole and had my choice between chipping from just short/middle vs. putting from above a hole on the left plateau, I'd think I'd take the chip option, even though I am a much better putter than chipper (this is not saying much I know.)
In fact, Dave, I'll give you an example of a dynamite little par 3 that a lot of GW guys played last fall -- #12 at Beverly, which plays about 140 or so. . . .
Frankly, that hole sounds stupid to me, at least with that pin. You must have been playing with raters, a real golfers would have made you keep putting.