[Brent Hutto]

The tree by the tee box would be cool but I'd prefer to think of it as a thoroughly modern course built for Vijay Singh, the thoroughly modern master of strategy.

He just needs to convince the USGA to put grandstands or luxury boxes on the right side of some fairways, about 310 off the tee, at the US Open. They could paint a target on them facing the tee with a sign "HIT IT HERE AND WIN A FREE DROP". If he can add either Open to his Masters and PGA wins they'll invite him into the wing of the Hall of Fame where Hogan and Snead reside.

[Steve Lang]

 

Hey Guys,

I was at the 18th tee during regulation play and vj was not real pleased with the push into the right trees there.. he'd been bombing it center or center right fairway most of the day with only a few left pulls sprinkled in.. vj & jd both pound it a good 60+ yds in the air, so where it lands is often a crap shoot, like on sat during the windy conditions.. that fairway (like most there) is plenty wide, but look, it plays 448 or so and looks a lot worse from the tee than it does from within 200 yds of the green

there were a lot of folks who stressed and ended up in the left water at 18.. and yes it slopes slightly and much cambered within 15 yards of water's edge, but its not like we're in north carolina eh?..

p.s. ms sheila was walking scorer for hank kuene & rees jones group in pro-am and she reports he plays like he had some game at one time, but that's history.. real gentleman and nice logo on his ball.  New course looking to be much better than Jacobsen-Hardy rehash of the ol El Dorado course.. Redstone.

[texsport]

The 18th at Redstone is plenty wide! JD just hit a bad shot! His 67 to get to the playoff was great playing!

18 is much easier than 16 and 17.

Redstone was a lot tougher this year because of the 4" rye grass rough. That coupled with the wind on Saturday and the scores showed it.

Since the par on the back 9 is 37, with only 1 par 3, the back 9 yardage is over 4,000 yds-a pretty testing challenge for anyone. Both par 5s are 570+yds.

Texsport

[danielfaleman]

From Golfobserver.com:

"Daly played the tight 18th hole with a three-wood off the tee for his birdie in regulation and did the same in the playoff, but this time he hooked it just a bit and found the water that hugs the left side of the fairway. Singh hit driver in both regulation and the playoff, but made sure his miss was to the right both times. He got a good lie in the rough in regulation, leading to an eight-foot birdie try, which he missed. He got in the heavier stuff in the playoff, but was able to hit the green, and that's all he needed."

[Dan Kelly]

... they just don't work for average golfers.

This is a question, not a statement:

Does a hole have to work for average golfers to be a good hole?

[Brent Hutto]

Define "work", define "average". If a USGA-spec "bogey golfer" is the average then I'd say any hole that such a golfer can't complete in seven or eight strokes the majority of the time doesn't work.

That eighteenth hole at the Houston Open seems like it would work for me unless the wind was really blowing hard. I'm a lefty slicer so I'd just have to nibble away at it with 3-wood, 5-iron or something to get within 100 or so yards of the green, probably laying up toward the right with both shots and bringing rough and trees into play. Then some kind of short iron or wedge to the right of the green and try to two-putt for a bogey (or maybe double if I had to chip out once along the way).

Now if you put me on the Tour tees and tell me I have to get it in the hole in four strokes and anything worse than a bogey and I'll be thrown in the lake then it doesn't work for me. But if a hole can likely be finished with the same ball I started with (even if that means not hitting driver off the tee or 3-wood off the deck) then there's no problem IMO.

[texsport]

Now this is what I call a good question for discussion on this site.

Seems to me it is the basis for many, if not most, differences of opinion about golf holes and golf courses on GCA.

My answer is, of course not!

 Please make a list of all the courses that are really "great" when played from any tee---it's a short list indeed!

[Paul Richards]

John:

>...all the courses that are really "great" when played from any tee...



You're on the wrong track. Or, should I say, the wrong tee??

 




According to GD,
>What does it take to become one of America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses? You've got to impress some very particular people: the Golf Digest Course Rating Panel...

>>> 2. Resistance to Scoring. How difficult, while still being fair, is the course for a scratch player from the back tees?



Apparently, to 'become one of America's 100 Greatest' you only need to be 'difficult' from the BACK TEES for the SCRATCH player.



Other folks from other tees need not apply.



 

[Lloyd_Cole]

If JM Olazabal can hit 3 wood , 9 iron then maybe it should be a tight drive. Obviously the reverse camber is less than ideal. But what is wrong with 2 iron, 6 iron?? Or would that be a par 5?

[texsport]

Paul
     I believe you got my point exactly!

Who wants a list of "great" courses as rated by 20 handicappers playing from the front tees?

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