[mike_malone]

 I think Sand Barrens uses bunkers in a fun strategic way that is local in its feel,that is, it is at the shore and flat so use sand in an interesting way. The bunkering looks natural. I haven't seen Blue Heron East, but what I have seen of Smyers bunkering it appears to be "striking" not "humble" like the Sand Barrens bunkering.

[cary lichtenstein]

Sand Barrens
Scotland Run
Blue Heron East

All 3 look good: Is anyone that much better than the others, or should I pick Blue Heron East as that will be history after this season?

[Jason Mandel]

Cary,

I would play BH East, Scottland Run is really not too close to AC.

Jason

[TEPaul]

cary;

This would be my recommendation---Atlantic City C.C. We just zipped in and out of there today but we spun around the course real fast. WHOA---it's in its IDEAL MAINTENANCE MELD---screaming firm and fast, greens a great speed. We rolled in there about 11:30 and not a single car in the lot--only one group on the course. It was a bit chilly because around the 4th hole my cigarette finger started to get white and numb but the day was fine other than that. If that place does more than 2,000 RPY I'd be shocked, so tee times aren't really a problem.

As you may know the course is owned by Hilton/Bally/Caesars (or whatever the company is called) and the course is exclusively for high rollers, so if a dozen people show up on a gorgeous day it would be a real crowd for that course now.

But don't let that stop you---call them and tell em' you'll be in the area next weekend and you'd like to play and if you like it you'll consider going over to Caesars Casino in AC. If they tell you you can't play just go on over to Caesars on Friday night and drop around $600,000 on blackjack or roulette and I can pretty much guarantee you they'll let you play on Saturday and/or Sunday before the Hidden Creek meeting. They may even throw in a couple of free Polo or Desante shirts and maybe feed and quench you on the cuff too. If you can swing this, though, just try not to get too lonely out there!

On the other hand, if you get lucky at Caesars on Friday night and happen to beat the brains out of the Casino to the tune or around 32 mil they'll probably let you play anyway and there just might be an outside possibility you can buy the place before you finish your round!

[Matt_Ward]

Cary:

I send you a message offline as a follow-up.

I'll say it again -- Scotland Run has the more compelling site and the architecture is a smidgeon beyond the likes of BHP / East. Sand Barrens is a novelty course -- the sand motif is more for appearances and has little integral components that weigh in seriously. You'll notice the big difference when you go to Hidden Creek and see the manner of bunker creation / positioning by C&C versus what Hurdzan & Fry constructed for SB.

Scotland Run is very much underappreciated in Jersey public golf circles.

[astavrides]

Sand Barrens
Scotland Run
Blue Heron East

All 3 look good: Is anyone that much better than the others, or should I pick Blue Heron East as that will be history after this season?

To me, the fact that it will no longer exist is reason not to play it.  For one, it thumbs your nose at the owner who is destroying it, and for two, if its not around anymore, then you cant go back ever again if you like it, and you can no longer recommend it to your friends.
You might also consider McCullough's Emerald Links which is near Hidden Creek and across the street from Twisted Dune.  Its a pretty good course, which gives discounts for walking every day of the week and with replica holes from GB&I courses.  

[Willie_Dow]

What are  you looking for ?  Routing ? Greens ? Access ? What ever ---------

Arcitecture on a public links would be Blue Heron East !

It should be owned by the TOWN - not the DEVELOPER !

This course is too good to lose !

[cary lichtenstein]

Willie:

Not looking for access, just an excellent public course.

Sounds like I should pass on BHE and go for Scotland Run.

Cary

[Rob_Waldron]

I had my eye trying to work in a visit to ACCC as well. Unfortunately Ron Jaworski is hosting his two day charity event at ACCC Sunday and Monday. Maybe Tuesday is a possibility.

If you have not played Smyers' Blue Heron Pines East course ....do so while it is still there. Ed Carman's Running Deer must be seen to be believed. (Probably a 40 to 50 minute drive from Hidden Creek) Avoid Monday's because a trip to Running Deer MUST be followed by dinner at the nearby Centerton Inn and the restaurant is closed on Mondays.

A trip south to Shore Gate is well worth the drive as well.

[Pat_Mucci]

Alex Stavrides,

Are you saying that if Pam Anderson said you could be with her tonight, but, that you'd never see her again, that you'd refuse the offer due to your above reasoning ?

Tis better to have loved and lost, then to never have sat in the balcony in the first place.

[Jason Mandel]

Pat,

Agreed.  Golf is golf, business is business, don't hold it against Roger Hanson or Steve Smyers for  a business decision.  

Truth be told, Pat mentioned that their may be an oppurtunity to play Hidden Creek on Sunday as well, I don't think any place will be as good as there so if thats an option I would choose that.

As for dinner on Sunday, it looks more and more likely that I will be able to attend on Monday, and if so I will most likely stay at the Borgata on Sunday night.  Dinner at Chef Vola is a MUST, i suggest dinner there either sunday night or Monday.  The best italian meal you will ever have.  If anyone is interested let me know and I will try to arrange a reservation, as anyone who knows about Chef Vola, knows they are not easily made.


Jason

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Cary
BHP East is the best public option.


Jason

I'm shocked that you prefer Chef Vola at The Borgata instead of The White House or Dino's in Margate.

Steve

[Pat_Mucci]

Alex,

You see, that's where we're different.

I'd take Pam tonight and play that other course you mentioned, Rebecca Romjin, at a later date.

One needs to broaden their horizons, not restrict them.

[Mike_Cirba]

A trip south to Shore Gate is well worth the drive as well.

Rob & I don't agree on much.

Shore Gate is perhaps the most blatant example of bloated, putrid excess I've seen in a golf course.  

We'll be able to smell it from Hidden Creek.  

[JeffTodd]

I'd steer you toward BHP East over Scotland Run because; A) It's much closer; B) BHP East is on Death Row and won't be here much longer; C) Scotland Run is very good, but in my opinion, not worth the additional hour of driving each way.

Shore Gate is close, but I personally find it more rewarding to simply take some acid and hit balls in the grass median of the Parkway. To each his own though.

[Kyle Harris]

A bit late in the fold, but is Forsgate accesible for you Cary? The Banks Course is a classic, and well worth the trip a bit north of Trenton.

[Jason Mandel]

Steve,

I am a big fan of White house and dino's.  Chef vola is not in the borgata, its in a back road of atlantic city, a little place in the basement of a house, holds about 35 people.  you can't even call to make a reservation, you have to fax them and they call you back to tell you wether they can take you or not.  

its a bit of a legendary place i'm suprised you haven't heard of hit.

jason

[Mike_Cirba]

I'd steer you toward BHP East over Scotland Run because; A) It's much closer; B) BHP East is on Death Row and won't be here much longer; C) Scotland Run is very good, but in my opinion, not worth the additional hour of driving each way.

Shore Gate is close, but I personally find it more rewarding to simply take some acid and hit balls in the grass median of the Parkway. To each his own though.

Cary,

I don't know who Jeff Todd is, but his review of the situation is spot on!

Jeff;

Careful of the one's with the little pictures of Ron Fream on them...bad trip.  

[SPDB]

I'd be curious what the take is on McCullough's Emerald Links. The name's bizarre, but the course looks pretty neat.

aCirba-ic,
what say you? have you played it?

[JeffTodd]

I'd be curious what the take is on McCullough's Emerald Links. The name's bizarre, but the course looks pretty neat.

aCirba-ic,
what say you? have you played it?

I played it once, but it was in January and the turf was suffering a bit. Kay did an interesting job in my opinion, even though all the holes are rendition holes. Far and away the best hole is #7 where he did MacKenzie's contest winning par-4 that was built as the 18th hole at Lido Golf Club. Another cool aspect of the course is that Kay did lesser known holes from Europe instead of copying the usual suspects.

When compared to Twisted Dune, which is a stone's throw away, it doesn't hold up. However, it's a fun course that can be played for as little as $30 if you use EZLinks. Pound for Dollar, it's a great value. That said, if I only have one round to play in that area it's not going to make the top of the list.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Emerald Links= Twisted Dune Light

Interesting to play though because of #7- the Lido tribute. Built on a former dump, gas escape pipes dot the landscape. The McCullough in the name is the former mayor of Egg Harbor Township who spearheaded the project.

[Matt_Ward]

My main issue with Emerald Links is the silly two holes you play with the 15th and 16th. They are on separate land from the remaining holes and completely out of character.

There's plenty to appreciate though at the course -- the famed Lido hole (7th) is well done by Kay.

The finishing hole is also quite pedestrian -- nonetheless -- the description of the layout being Twisted Dune/lite is appropriate.

[Mike_Cirba]

Yeah, Emerald Links is a real mixed bag.  

There are some superb holes that are probably even more authentic in links-type tone than Twisted Dune and a few (such as those Matt mentions and about 3 others) that are just awful.  

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