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Pete Lavallee

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Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« on: November 24, 2004, 04:28:48 PM »
Here's an interesting article from the lead golf writer at San Diego's Union Tribune:

By Tod Leonard

November 24, 2004

The slick, eight-page newsletter from the Lodge at Torrey Pines arrived in the mail at San Diego homes early last week. Featured on the seventh and eighth pages are gorgeous photographs of the Torrey Pines golf courses with the accompanying text:

Beginning early next year, the North Course at Torrey Pines will undergo a renovation that will bring it to the level of excellence required by the PGA Tour.

. . . In the North renovation, greens will be restructured with the average golfer in mind, and bunkers will be strategically placed. Work is expected to begin around February 1, 2005.

Hmmmm. Very interesting. An amazing work of prescience, really, considering the North Course project hadn't even been approved by the City Council's Natural Resources and Culture Committee. That didn't happen until a week ago, and from there it still needs to go to the full City Council for a vote later this month.

Oops.

Except this is much more than oops. This example of either ignorance, arrogance, or both, is the very reason public golfers in San Diego have so little faith in democracy when it comes to the Torrey Pines golf courses.

"It is my understanding this is a hearing to discuss the various issues," Dale Peterson, the immediate past president of the Torrey Pines men's club, told the NR&C committee last Wednesday after showing them the Lodge's newsletter. "This piece here says it's already a done deal."

Of course it was a done deal, because the Lodge, the Century Club, the pro shop and the men's club at Torrey Pines had signed off on it long before the meeting. As with the renovation of the South Course, a carefully orchestrated campaign had been mounted to educate the small, influential groups that needed to be swayed, and when that was successful, the NR&C's approval was a mere formality.

The Lodge knew that, and no doubt produced its full-color brochure without a qualm or a clue.

Herewith lies the dilemma at Torrey Pines. It is becoming increasingly difficult to discern who's running the show.

There are at least 14 constituencies that have a stake in the two courses: local golfers, tourists, City Council, Park and Recreation Department, pro shop, Lodge, Hilton, Century Club, men's club, women's club, PGA Tour, San Diego Junior Golf Association, USGA and the local 2008 U.S. Open committee.

Forgive us if we've overlooked a nudist society on Black's Beach.

The point is: If Torrey were paper, it'd be in shreds because so many special interests are pawing at the supposedly municipal facility.

City Councilman Michael Zucchet may be one of the few people at City Hall who truly gets it when it comes to the passion everyday golfers feel for Torrey Pines. It is Zucchet, a Torrey Pines men's club member and 6-handicap who learned to play on the course, who was instrumental in getting the North's radical overhaul reduced – he hopes – to a "maintenance" project to replace the aging greens, along with bunkers and tees.

"That question (of special interests) is part of all of these discussions," Zucchet said. "It's first and present with these North plans. I asked 10 times, who's asking for this? Is the PGA Tour threatening to pull the (Buick Invitational)? No. The USGA? No. Are the (public) players asking for it? No. I was told, 'Because we think it's a good thing to do.'

"I think it was because (course architect) Rees Jones thought it would be a good idea, and the people at the Century Club did. Nobody else was asking for it."

Zucchet's problem is that he's not a greenskeeper, so he can't argue when the grass experts tell him the greens aren't draining well and need to be replaced.

Those who golf at Torrey North only know that the well-maintained greens have rolled fast and fair. For three years, they have been vastly better than the South's greens after the renovation's sodding problem.

It's likely the public golfer would go happily along playing the North for years on these greens. Instead – and no matter how closely city officials stand over Jones' shoulder – the North will never be the same.

"If they do too much with it, the course won't offer the same type of play it does now," said Noah Manning of Pacific Beach, after playing the back nine on the North yesterday. "I wouldn't mind some minor adjustments, but nothing major.

"Only God can give you a gift like this course. People like coming over here and playing it because it's fun. The USGA will come here (for the U.S. Open) in 2008, but then they're gone after that. They already made huge changes on the South, and if they make huge changes on the North, the people who play it will be left with the changes and have to deal with them."

San Diegan John Oden, 80, who's been playing Torrey for 20 years, had similar thoughts.

"If I were recommending, I'd recommend doing nothing," he said. "The next-best thing is to redo the greens only. I understand the greens are old and will go bad if they're not replaced. They say the drainage isn't very good. So if that's the case, get new greens. But the bunkers are fine where they are."

Anybody who thinks the North's greens are going to the barber shop for a trim off the top is badly mistaken. It's a frontal lobotomy. Just watch. When they're done, the greens and the bunkers around them will more resemble the South's than anyone now imagines. Isn't that the very point made by the Lodge's brochure: "The renovation . . . will bring it to the level of excellence required by the PGA Tour."

When the renovation is done, and the North's 18th hole has been pushed 40 yards north to open up space, the lobbying for a new clubhouse will begin, with a projected finish in the winter of 2007. Conveniently, that's well before the city's Big Players will show it off at the 2008 U.S. Open. Again, there are special-interest fingerprints all over that one.

Zucchet, the public golfer, is genuinely, deeply concerned.

"When some interests don't mesh with those of the daily player, I think the entities most listened to are the USGA or the Century Club or some other very well-intentioned entities," Zucchet said. "There needs to be an attempt to shift back to the attitude that this is a municipal golf course at the end of the day. I want to make sure that's the case."

In the meantime, golfers, remember this: Unlike the South, you are paying for the North's $2.5 million to $3 million renovation with your green fees. Barring private funding, you will be paying untold millions for the clubhouse, and probably a driving range.

So in 2009, when the freeze on greens fees is lifted a year after the U.S. Open, you need to scream at the top of your lungs if the city tries to raise your greens fees after spending its considerable surplus on North Course "maintenance" and a new clubhouse you didn't ask for.

At the very least, get a crystal ball and start your own newsletter. It really works.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tod Leonard: (619) 293-1858; tod.leonard@uniontrib.com
une:
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

A_Clay_Man

Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2004, 08:10:46 PM »
Thanks for continuing to point out all the municipal mayhem, Pete.

One doesn't need to drive far nowadays to find similar horror stories. Yours is just on a world stage.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2004, 09:11:34 AM »
I remember muni golf in Portland, OR in the early 1990's.  They were making so much money that they funneled the excess revenues into "the arts" and away from the golf courses (Eastmoreland, Heron Lakes, Rose City, etc...)

I'm all for helping the arts, but this was nuts.  The conditioning of the courses suffered and, with the advent of new local daily fee courses, the amount of play decreased.

It's amazing how little planning goes into muni golf.

If I did that type of thing where I worked, I'd be out of a job....

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2004, 12:19:29 PM »
Pete:  Thanks for keeping us up to date on the happenings at Torrey Pines.  Typical of municipalities, too many people and organizations, unfamiliar with golf, involved in the process.  The one city councilman, who is qualified to represent the golfers, seems to me to be making good sense.  Of course this problem is not limited to San Diego, Pasadena is headed down the same path.
Keep us informed on further stories.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2004, 11:47:48 AM »
Pete and Lynn,

What do you guys wish to happen at TP-N?

Do you believe that the South was damaged in any way by the Rees redo?

I don't know the history of TP and how it was funded, but I can understand how the locals might feel as stakeholders.  However, tourism being very important to San Diego, I also see that constituent group having some say.

Perhaps a solution is for the city to find another site, and there are many, grease its way through all the regulations, and build a course similar to Rustic Canyon.  Run it and charge enough to break-even after debt service and capital improvements, with 10 minute tee times and adequate downtime for maintenance.  And give the locals priority on a large percentage of the tee times.

Whether right or wrong, good or bad, TP is not just a muni.  It is a golf complex of worldwide reknown, and serves a very large, diverse client base.    

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2004, 12:09:55 PM »
Lou
Torrey Pines was built to be "just a muni."
Over the years it has changed.  I don't doubt that having the San Diego "Buick, Andy Williams...." Open there every year has changed the dynamics of who wants to play it.  However the intent was to build a 36 hole complex for the golfers of San Diego. The fact that it was on the coastline was to benefit the golfers of San Diego.  Now the tourism industry wants to get its hands on the deal.  I don't like it.  Let it stay as a complex devoted to the golfers of San Diego.  Where do you think the muni golfers should go?
This isn't Texas, building another muni in similar local will not happen.  Unlike Texas we have the red legged frog.  It has much higher standing than some average muni golfer.  I say let the tourism industry build their own course.  This is why Donna Frye had so many write in votes, the citizens are tired of having their services bought off by the all important tourism cause.  Man, I am sounding like a Dem this morning.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

A_Clay_Man

Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2004, 12:17:15 PM »
Not really Lynn, You sound more like someone who appreciates the justification for things,(especially when public funds are/were involved) and when the "windfall" is commercialized, it becomes not only grotesque, it smacks of all sorts of political patronage. The kind that a native Chicagoan knows nothing about. ;)

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2004, 01:28:14 PM »
Lynn,

I understand where you're coming from.  Do you believe that a public course, particularly a muni, should be able to discriminate based on where somebody is from?  A club primarily for the exclusive use of its citizens/owners without regard to outside supply and demand issues and market forces?  Personally, I don't have a problem with that either.

Re: sounding like a Dem-  that's hardly the first time.  I would say it is akin more to the noises of a populist.  Things change, and for every action taken to give preferences to one group, it is nearly always at the expense of another.

That a frog has more rights than a muni golfer is a rather sad commentary on the land of the smart and beautiful.  Us cowboys in many parts of Texas just have to worry about wetlands, drab topography, extreme weather, and few barriers to entry.  Despite the high costs and crazies, I can understand why people want to live in CA.  After 26 years in Texas, it still bewliders me why this place keeps on growing by leaps and bounds.  Could it be job growth, $80 to $100 per SF home prices, and people with a more down to earth attitude?  For those who follow this site, it is well known that it can't be due to the availability of quality golf!

peter_mcknight

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2004, 04:52:13 PM »
Donna Frye almost won the City of San Diego's mayoral race because of the following factors:

1.  She is the only member of the city council that can honestly claim outsider status.  In fact, when the mayor and city council huddle in closed session, she usually balks and doesn't participate.
2.  The City, like the County of San Diego, has badly mismanaged its pension fund, underfunding it to the tune of $1.15B.  This fact alone got the city manager and five other department heads fired earlier in 2004.  It almost got Dick Murphy fired as mayor.
3.  Ron Roberts decided to, once again, take a run against Murphy in an internal GOP squabble.  The race would never have been that close had Roberts not been on the ballot.
4.  I believe some people wised up towards the end of the election and decided not to vote for Frye because doing so would mean she would be the first mayor to receive the expanded powers passed by the voters on the same ballot, that the city's voters don't want to venture that far out to the political left.  As mayor, I can't imagine that she has the leadership on finding 5 votes out of 8 to support her positions.
5.  You can never underestimate the power of the downtown interests.

The only other way the city could build another course(s) for its residents is to annex unincorporated lands east and north, then build there--the rest is pretty much spoken for already.

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2004, 01:25:06 PM »
Lou, like you, I would just like to see Torrey Pines be an "open and free market place."  They have established different fee structures, resident, non resident stuff.  I assume hotels get tee times as well.  When you do that you are taking from the original concept.  They seem to be moving even farther away from the muni concept.  

To say the City of San Diego has problems is understating it.  They hired a golf manager to oversee Torrey Pines which is just a few miles from Del Mar racetrack.  This guy had a past checkered with gambling debts and problems.  At his previous golf course, his landlord wanted to audit his past books.  They were in his garage and his garage burned to the ground a few days later.  The police escorted him from the course parking lot in handcuffs.  Interesting resume to obtain San Diego employment.  
After some mysterious financial dealings he resigned last May.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golfers bend over at Torrey North
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2004, 09:22:06 PM »
"That question (of special interests) is part of all of these discussions," Zucchet said. "It's first and present with these North plans. I asked 10 times, who's asking for this? Is the PGA Tour threatening to pull the (Buick Invitational)? No. The USGA? No. Are the (public) players asking for it? No. I was told, 'Because we think it's a good thing to do.'

"I think it was because (course architect) Rees Jones thought it would be a good idea, and the people at the Century Club did. Nobody else was asking for it."

This is the worrisome part. Nobody actually playing here wants the course changed, it's pefectly fine the way it is. This hogwash about the green's drainage does quiet the critics though, "well if the agronimists say it's so who are we to question them?" Accepting a $3.2MM gift from the Century Club to bring the Open to town is one thing, but spending $3.0MM to change the greens just to say they are now Rees Jones Classic Greens is a whole different kettle of fish. This will cost everyone who plays here from residents to tourists alike. I just can't see the course improving by allowing Rees to remove contours from these greens; which judging from what happened at the South is surely what's in store for the North.  
« Last Edit: November 27, 2004, 09:22:43 PM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

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