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Doug Siebert

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What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« on: August 29, 2004, 05:24:48 PM »
The thread about par 3s to open/close a round got me thinking whether there is any consensus on what the 1st hole should be like?  While there are perhaps a few par 3 openers that work, I think few if any people would advocate a par 3 opener as the ideal.

There are certainly many par 5s openers, some of which are well beloved, like Sand Hills'.  How many would advocate a par 5 as the ideal starter, and if so, what type of par 5?  Reachable or not?  Is its primary source of difficulty on the tee shot, approach shot or on the green?  If you are a fan of a par 4, is it short or long (or perhaps reachable?)

How difficult, and in what way?  Do you want a generous driving area?  Is a forced layup OK off the first tee or should players be starting the first with a driver?  The the greensite large and relatively kind or do you prefer to test the putters right off the bat?

If pace of play was not an issue (i.e., a private club that sees little play) would you answer differently?
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Brian_Gracely

Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2004, 06:30:47 PM »
1) Tee is near the clubhouse or ProShop
2) Hole allows players to quickly get away and not have undue delays.  Short Par5 where majority of players try to reach in two shots, or Par3s probably don't fit this mold.
3) Reasonably challenging hole in case it needs to be used to settle ties in match-play.
4) Reasonably challenging green.

So far this year I thought Cypress Point, Prestwick, Pinehurst #2, and Raleigh CC were all good starters.  I thought #1 at Rustic Canyon was a good hole, but not a great starter because of the delays waiting for people trying to get home in two.  

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2004, 06:50:50 PM »
If pace of play was not an issue (i.e., a private club that sees little play) would you answer differently?

  Right, I think that is the most important determination; is it public or private?  
  My experiences at public courses, especially crowded ones, has led me to form the opinion that the par 4 is the ideal starting hole, simply because play has a tendency to back up on the par 3 holes and par 5 holes.  
Often, on the par 5s, the weaker player, regardless of ability, will flail away with driver, and wait for the green to clear 350 yards away so they can mess up a bunch more shots, take their 8 or 9, and go to the next tee--all of this while other groups back up on the tee, often as much as four groups deep.  
Par 3s, same thing.  Many weaker players miss the green, dawdle around for awhile, and then hole out, without letting faster groups hit up and play through.  
Par 4s can have similar problems, I know of one I used to play often that was the second hole, featuring a crossbunker 20 yds short--players would always lay up before the crossbunker even though it's only a 400 yard hole.  

Private clubs, on the other hand, have less overall play, and might space tee times out a bit more--say, ten minute intervals.  Plus, I think the quality of golf at most--I repeat most--private clubs may be better, so you may have less hackers and weaker players may be encouraged by staff to hurry along or pick up.  

One of my favorite courses in the world--Bethpage Red--has a whopper of an opener, 471 yds, dead straight, but an uphill, blind green.  It's a difficult hole, but not impossible with a good drive or a good wedge game.  My key is to pick my line of approach from the tee--find the tree the flag is directly in front of--and aim for that on my approach.

Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesn't.  I'm an 11.  

I don't mind it because for my handicap, I can expect to make some bogeys during the round.  It's a strong opener, although for public play, I don't know if it's a good opener.  Play can back up here too, because of the length involved; the average player, hitting a 230 yard drive, will have 240, uphill, which usually means they hit a firway metal into the face of the hill which the green sits higher up on.

To continue the question, for public play, I prefer a reasonably easy starting hole--to ease the nerves and first-tee jitters, and seve as a  more gentle introduction into the round.  
I would not be opposed to two strategies at work, however; perhaps a way for the better player and the weaker.  I like Ross' idea of a 'handshake' opener, a gentle introduction to the round, to get things going.  A par 5 is ok as a second hole, but not a par 3, only because it causes backups.  4-4 is a good introduction, as is 4-5.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Evan_Green

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2004, 06:57:33 PM »
I think a good tough par 4 is ideal but one where a huge number is unlikely- it lets you hit two solid shots to get going without having to worry about an X on the first hole (ala Secession), on the other hand it provides a solid challenge and inspires the golfer for what is to come without causing inordinate delays.

My vote for prototype first Hole is Winged Foot West #1.

While I havent played it, Augusta #1 looks on paper and on TV to be an excellent opener along the lines I layed out above.


Bill_McBride

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2004, 06:59:55 PM »
I like MacKenzie's par 5 openers like Valley Club and Pasatiempo (although #1 Pasa became a par 4 with a reprinting of the scorecard!).  Not a tough hole at par 5, get 'em off and keep 'em moving.  Part of this was because of the lack of practice facilities to warm up.

You sure don't want a really tough hole so you start with a bogey at best!

Wayne_Freedman

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2004, 08:23:01 PM »
Brian, you're dead-on.

When I think of an ideal first hole, Cypress Point comes to mind.
It's has an ample drivinf area, allowing those of us who didn't warm up to find a swing. But, it isn't easy, either. Joe Dimaggio's tree looms out there (so named because it can catch anything), and if I rememember correctly, the second shot plays slightly uphill to a mid-sized, somewhat  challenging green.

It's enough to both test you, and also challenge your nerves.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2004, 08:23:47 PM by Wayne_Freedman »

ChipOat

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2004, 08:35:55 PM »
In his 1964 book, "Sports Illustrated's Greatest 18 Holes In Golf", Dan Jenkins posited that the ideal opening hole "should test the golfer, but just a little".

That sounds OK to me and the example I would offer is that #1 at Winged Foot West seems awfully difficult to tackle right out of the gate.  #1 at Aronimink seems pretty tough, as well.

Doug Siebert

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2004, 10:52:27 PM »
Since Prestwick was brought up, I'm curious what others think about it.  I'm not a fan of starting out with a 5i off the first tee, but since the second shot from your layup is not your typical simple wedge approach you usually find after a forced layup (especially with a pin on the right by the wall) it works for me.

Which made me think of North Berwick's opener.  While its extremely short, I personally think it is a bit nasty for the opener with that uphill approach to the green perched on the cliff edge like that.  It'd work perfectly as the closer, since the par 3.5 18th is a bit weak (but I think still works) but the 18th would definitely be far too weak as an opener.

North Berwick is overall such an easy course that looking back I felt like the biggest test I faced was the wedge shot at that first green, as I never really know where the heck my shots will be going on the first two or three holes -- a problem with anyone who doesn't warm up before playing, but since North Berwick has no driving range AFAIK, that would be a problem shared by even those who normally do warm up.  I have to wonder if I would have played as well that afternoon had I managed to find the ocean on that opening hole and set myself a bad tone to begin my round instead of leaving an easy stress free two putt par.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Steve Pozaric

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2004, 11:01:11 PM »
I too think a par 4 is the best starter.  It should allow for use of a driver, but accept a fw wood as well (at the expense of a second shot).  For me, I think a fairly open hole is best as it allows people to get off to a good start (and not cause undue delay in looking for lost balls).  The green can be pretty challenging.

There is a course across the river in IL called Stonewolf.  It has a lot of good holes, but a gripe I have (as well as others too) is:  1st hole is long iron or fw wood, 2nd hole is fw wood, 3rd hole is par 3, 4th hole driver is not a good choice.  So, you are at the 5 hole before you can/should choose driver.  I like at least the option to do so before then.
Steve Pozaric

Wayne Freeman

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2004, 02:01:40 AM »
I like what's been written so far for the most part.  I too like to ease into the round and not be pounded at the start. #1 at Winged Foot from the back is toooo long and the first at Bethpage Red is a ball buster -  much too discouraging for a first hole ( and I'm a 2).  The top 3 courses here in SoCal all have nice par 5's to start-  Bel-Air, Riviera, and LACC. Reasonable par 4's are also ok-   who wants to be hitting 3 iron second shots just out of the gate.  Southern Hills has a great starting hole, as do Merion, Philly CC, Shinny, Maidstone...

Gerry B

Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2004, 02:58:38 AM »
Wayne Freeman hit it right on the head  - Merion East opening hole being perhaps the best example in comparison to the next 4 holes. There is enough pressure on the opening hole's tee box being within spitting distance to the outdoor patio. One does need a kick in the head on the opening hole.

Other examples (IMHO) of starting holes on famous, difficult or top ranked ranked courses that ease one into the course include:

Fishers Island
Seminole
Pebble
Olympic
Shoreacres
Medinah #1 and #3
Bethpage Black - tougher than hole 2 but beats starting on #4 or #5
Yale
National in Toronto
Capilano
Atlantic City
Pacific and Bandon Dunes
Pinehurst # 2
Baltusrol Lower

Courses that have tough starts(imho) include:

Oak Hill East - #1 stroke hole -Ben Hogan referred it as the toughest opening hole in golf
Lionhead Legends course in Toronto - one of the toughest opening par 4's anywhere
Aronomink
Baltimore CC Five Farms East - 2 tough opening holes in fact
Chicago Golf Club - the first of 4 tough opening holes in comparison to the rest of the course

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2004, 05:53:22 AM »
TOC #1  - big wide fairway, no trouble unless you are wild enough to go OOB or so powerful that you can drive the Burn.  Then you face the second shot, which is white knuckle stuff from whatever distance the shot is played.

TEPaul

Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2004, 07:16:11 AM »
In my opinion, there never could be even close to a consensus on what an ideal 1st hole consists of. Preferences on a 1st hole are probably as broad as the art of putting!

Personally, I like short and somewhat tricky 1st holes on the order of Torresdale Frankford, Philly C.C., Merion East or West, NGLA where most golfers have a reasonable option of teeing off with any number of clubs. I personally like the "get-into-the round" type openers instead of openers where you basically have to use a driver.

But I certainly can't help but respect and appreciate an opening hole like PVGC's opener that was a hole Crump had many thoughts about (and worked dilligently to perfect) and was apparently designed along the same basic principles as Hoylake's #1. Crump's good friend, Simon Carr, described Hoylake's #1 as one of the most difficult openers on the authority of George Low and consequently it doubled as great 19th hole for the purpose of more easily deciding a playoff. Crump envisioned PVGC's #1 as not just a demanding opener but as a good play-off settler!

PS;

I've been in a couple of masive play-offs on PVGC's #1 and I can tell you it does its play-off job really well!


JNC Lyon

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Re:What's the ideal 1st hole consist of?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2004, 08:40:26 AM »
My absolute favorite of all the first holes I have played is Oak Hill's West Course. It's about 360, and it starts from an elevated tee plays diagonally across a hillside. Many options off the tee, and the more you go right, the better angle you have into the green. The green itself is quite unique, as it is pitched from back to front and has two distinct tiersa high one on the left and a low one on the right. It is very easy to make a par or birdie with a short iron, but one can also make a fast bogey. Like many holes at Oak Hill, it requires one to play it a few times to really appreciate its virtues.

I also like Oak Hollow's (NC) first. Fun and quirky start to a fun and quirky course.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

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