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Brian_Ewen

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European Tour needs world-class courses
« on: July 19, 2004, 09:45:17 AM »
European talent needs world-class courses on Tour

GREG TURNER


A SOURCE of much discussion at Troon this week has been the relative lack of European success in recent major championships. Indeed since Nick Faldo’s memorable comeback victory at the ’96 Masters only Olazabal and Lawrie (both in ’99) have taken a major trophy. This is not to say there is not some real strength. Harrington, Garcia, Clarke, Jacobson, Casey, Jimenez, Bjorn and Haeggman are all currently ranked in the world’s top 50 but none have quite made that step to greatness.

So how can it be that from a tour that has grown and prospered at an astonishing rate more champion golfers have not emerged? In the Eighties and early Nineties there were European names that dominated the game. Lyle, Faldo, Ballesteros, Woosnam, Langer and, to a lesser extent Olazabal, all reigned supreme. They were among the dominant figures in golf and at a time when the European Tour was a relative minnow (total prizemoney in ’84 was under £3million - around a fifth of that available in the US. Last year it was over £70m - around half of the US pot). Today Europe undoubtedly produces a depth of talent far in excess of the Eightie however has failed to spawn pre-eminent individuals.

To find the answers for this riddle we need to again go back to the Eighties. Traditional venues were paid a hosting fee and as the tour expanded and infra-structural requirements grew, so too did the financial expectations of the host clubs.

At the same time there was the emergence of proprietorial clubs who could see a real value in the visibility they could gain from hosting a tour event. Being paid to come beat the hell out of having to pay to be there so the tour, both understandably and enthusiastically, courted these new suitors.

The result was an explosion in prize funds that unquestionably broadened the base of European professional golf. It significantly increased the number of players able to view golf as a legitimate career option and enabled them to go about their business in a far more professional and structured manner. Not only did players improve but so too did the support structures around them.

The injection of money into the game at the top end had a trickle down effect allowing coaches, nutritionists, psychologists, physiotherapists and any number of financial advisers to assist in the process and share in the bounty. Everything in the garden was, ostensibly, rosy. But this seemingly symbiotic relationship was not without its drawbacks. Most of these new courses were significantly inferior to their more traditional predecessors. Mostly built on farmland so as to fulfil the commercial requirements of the projects (the driving force usually being residential development rather than utilising the most appropriate golfing land) the turfs were poorer, the grasses less ideal and the layouts rudimentary.

Money was in abundance to disguise these problems through carefully managed presentation but in the end these venues had insurmountable problems.

Essentially, many of the new courses stank. The most effective formula remained the same week in, week out - long and high from the tee, dead aim at the flag.

Manufacturers adapted their equipment to player demands and designers reacted to player expectation. Flat fairways, long grass, one shot around the greens and one swing for everywhere else. Rewards were for the ability to repeat the same swing over and over rather than anything that resembled creativity.

The great players of the Eighties, on the other hand, developed their games on courses designed and conditioned to provide a far more varied and wide-ranging test. In needing to hit a far greater variety of shots they also learned much more about their swings and how to control the ball. They became great because the courses they played honed rather than blunted their skills.

So what is the answer? The current money obsession must be replaced with a more balanced outlook where quality is also rewarded. A means must be found to reward promoters and federations for selecting the best courses to host their events (currently dates are essentially awarded on the basis of prize-money alone).

The courses most suited as preparation for majors should be awarded dates leading into those majors (a swing of links venues in the lead up to the Open Championship would be a good start) although quite how one would prepare for that annual madness of the US Open I’m not sure (perhaps a couple of weeks in an psychiatric asylum).

A ranking system that gave added value to high-quality venues would also act as an incentive.

To be overly critical of the Tour for its chosen path would, however, be uncharitable in the extreme. Given the financial realities it faced there were few alternative options available, but now is the time to react to the unfortunate side effects.

If a means is found to compete more often on quality courses it is more likely Europe’s elite will develop their full potential and podium finishes in major championships will again become the norm rather than the exception.

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2004, 10:32:10 AM »
Brian.

Pardon my acute ignorance but who is Greg Turner. Certainly he is an astute Guy.

Funny we were having this conversation at my own club a few hours ago. I wonder, is it me or did they play a different game years ago? I’m just thinking, Trevino, Neil Coles, Peter Thompson, Hogan. Did they not all play a robotic type game where avoiding trouble was the principal objective and where fairways and greens were the order of the day? Was it more of a ground game? I am just casting my mind back to those old Opens and I can’t recall too many occasions where the best were hacking out of gorse and Malboro Country all the time. Is it now a case of high and long as the principal objective and have they therefore lost the art of consistent straight hitting? If that is the case, then I believe the courses are to blame.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2004, 10:37:14 AM »
What's most surprising to me about the lack of inspiring courses is that at least the Euro Tour has access to links courses, whereas in the US we really don't. Why has there been such a shift toward playing non-links courses on the Euro Tour? Do the other (presumably newer) courses lay out more money to secure the events?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2004, 10:39:16 AM »
I believe it was Nick Faldo (who, by the way, ought to quit playing right now and become ABC's lead analyst -- he's that good, while, coincidentally, Hal Sutton is shaping up as an abject failure) and perhaps some others who pointed out during the Open broadcast that the European players don't play on links courses now any more often than the American players do. The European tour has shifted over to the kind of new parkland-style courses we usually play in the U.S.

No wonder they can't win their own Open. What a pity.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2004, 10:48:06 AM »
Marc:

Greg Turner is a Kiwi who played the European Tour for 15-20 years, a good friend of Mike Clayton's.  He is now trying to get going at golf course design in New Zealand.

From seeing pictures on this web site, there appear to have been a lot of candidates in France and Holland from the classic era, but all of them are still the same 6400 yards at which they opened.  None have been lengthened for the US Open ... so there are a lot of Fenways and no Winged Foots.

The confluence of great European players in the eighties and nineties was a boon to the sport across Europe, but it was a rare event ... like the year of Michael Jordan's NBA draft.  You don't always get a group of players like that coming along.  In truth, I think the lack of follow-up of great European players has less to do with the courses they play than simple sheer numbers.  There just aren't nearly as many golfers in Europe as in the USA.

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2004, 10:51:18 AM »
George.

It is purely financial. I had a chat with Bruce Jameson, one of the euro tours old agronomists the other day and he enlightened me on how they used to pay Walton Heath and Sunningdale £125k a year to host the European Open. Then along came East Sussex National and offered to pay the tour £250k to take over as the venue so that was the end of that.

Of course, ESN have since capitulated and sold up for a fraction of the original investment.

Another thing. This continuous use of lurid, stripy, parkland, visual insults, has an appalling knock on effect for golf as a whole. I mean, the golfing masses are now believing these places are the ultimate in golfing utopia that all else should aspire to!  

IMHO

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2004, 10:53:04 AM »
Well even if they played on links courses twice a year on tour, that would not be enough. Irish golfers play lots of the big amateur tournamets on links courses. I'm sure it's the same in England, Scotland and Wales. I think this is when you develop you skills on a links course.

John Marr(inan)

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2004, 02:21:48 PM »
The European Tour plays 12 events in the British Isles. Three of those events (#s7,8,11) are played on links courses. By looking at the list of non-links course, my guess would be that the site selection process is economically driven. I believe that they are all privately owned and most have a resort component to them.

1. Marriott Forest of Arden Warwickshire, England
2. Wentworth Club, Surrey, England
3. The Celtic Manor Resort, City of Newport, Wales
4. PGA Centenary Course, The Gleneagles Hotel Perthshire, Scotland
5. The K Club, Straffan Co. Kildare, Ireland
6. Loch Lomond GC, Glasgow, Scotland
7. Royal Troon GC, Ayrshire, Scotland
8. Co Louth GC, Baltray, Drogheda, Ireland
9. Marquess Course, Woburn G&CC , United Kingdom
10. Mount Juliet Conrad Thomastown, Co Kilkenny, Ireland
11. Old Course St Andrews, Carnoustie & Kingsbarns, Scotland
12. Wentworth Club, Surrey, England



Chris_Clouser

Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2004, 02:30:23 PM »
Do you think the lack of world class courses is what is causing the problem?  If I look at the US Tour, I don't see a lot of prize-winners there either.  Or is that our Tour courses are better than theirs?  

I wonder if this isn't similar to the trend in the late 80s and early 90s on the US tour where it seemed that the US players were just weaker.  From what I remember that was when the big money started to trickle into the US tour and guys were happy to just cash checks.  And their performance showed in the big events.  Is it possible that is what is now taking place on the Euro tour?

Or is it just a cyclical thing and in 10 years we'll be talking about the lack of great players in the US while Australia and NZ and Japan produce the next wave of superstars?


Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2004, 02:44:03 PM »
Which are the classic courses that Seve and Co played, that are now missing?

Sunningdale (occasionally)
Walton Heath (occasionally)
St Germain
Kennemer
Royal Zoute
Puerto de Hierro
Hamburger/Falkenstein?

Which others?

The tiny euro women's pro tour recently visited the links at Kennemer.  The course and weather took them apart.  They also visit Porthcawl every year.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Alex_Wyatt

Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2004, 02:46:29 PM »
The issue is dinero, not courses.  The field quality in Europe is so diluted by the discrepancy in  purses that at the 30th man on, you are looking at Nationwide Tour quality. The only way to be the best is to play against the best.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2004, 03:06:02 PM »
Does the leadership of the European Tour have any obligation to develop players from Europe that can consistently win the Open Championship? Does the European Tour have coffers deep enough and the capability to occassionally go to a links course that provides less economic incentive but will provide a great event and attract a world wide field?

Mark_Guiniven

Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2004, 10:02:30 PM »
Marc,
Check out http://www.gregturnergolf.com. Greg is just getting his site together and has some interesting articles up. Thanks for your response on the Troon thread btw.


Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2004, 02:47:47 AM »
Mark
Thanks for that .

I used to love Greg Turners column in the UK version of Golf World .

Lets hope we start getting more columns from him .

Brian

Sean Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2004, 03:42:13 AM »
Marc,

A little more on Greg Turner.  A seasoned Pro who has done the rounds.  If I'm not mistaken he played in the Presidents Cup at Royal Melbourne and did well.

Also came to some prominence over his disagreement with his local golf association over Tiger Woods' much hyped visit a few years ago.  If I can remember correctly he didn't like the large fee involved and thought Tiger was mercenary.  Floated the idea that all the players at the tournament would rather they invited Tiger and added the money to the total prize pool (In effect a performance based contract for Tiger).

Added to this he was also quite miffed that on one of the days he was forced to wait at the players entrance for a few minutes while Tigers' entourage was passing through, this despite the fact that Turner was there first.

In short he can be relied on to call a spade a spade.

If I am also not mistaken a popular bloke amongst other golfers playing down under.

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2004, 04:32:41 AM »
Sean and Guys.

It's all coming back to me now. Yes I remember the Tiger/Greg problem and indeed saw Greg play a couple of times. I think he led the Open once.

Mark_Guiniven

Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2004, 04:38:23 AM »
Greg has an older brother, Glenn, who played Test cricket for NZ and scored a hundred first-class centuries. I think he's still the only batsman other than Bradman to have made a thousand runs before the end of May in an English county season. His older brother Brian played hockey for NZ and is a renown poet/author/painter here.

Greg has done mostly small stuff so far. I think he was connected with some restorative work at St George's Hill (Colt) and he's made alterations at Manakau, Taupo and Chisholm Park closer to home. I recently saw he's involved with a new project near Christchurch the Koreans are pumping silly money into. He would make an ideal GCA feature interview one month.

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2004, 04:49:57 AM »
Paul.

I think there were quite a few classic courses visited on a fairly regular basis back in the 70’s and 80’s.

Off the top of my head and using the golfers handbook:

Moortown
Notts (Hollinwell)
Royal St Georges
Birkdale
Hillside
Ganton
TOC
Lindrick
Portmarnock
Killarney
Hoylake
Turnberry
Gleneagles
Carnoustie

But I do agree with Tom Doak. It is probably more about numbers.

Also I wonder, is there some sort of peer thing going on. Is it a case of one does it (Seve) and all the rest get confident and follow. Maybe that would also explain the recent glut of relative unknowns performing so well in the majors.  

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2004, 07:26:27 AM »
Turner was a really good player - won the New Zealand Open,
beat Norman at his best in Australia a couple of times including at Royal Melbourne in 1990,Italian Open,Australian PGA - and a few others I can't think of.
He and Nobilo beat Duval and  O'Meara in the first match of The Presidents Cup in 1998 at RM- and really got the International team going because all assumed they were certainties to lose.

The demise of quality courses was a horrible thing to go through as a player who cared about architecture - most pro's however don't - certainly not in Europe.
Given a choice between playing for a million on a dog track and 800,000 on a great course they would go for the dog track every time.

Also gone from the middle eighties  were the best courses on the continent including- Chantilly,De Pan,Kennemer,Puerto de Hierrro,Bremen,Falstebro, El Saler,The Hague and others.

As well as the best British courses - Sunningdale,Walton Heath,Birkdale,Moortown,Kings at Gleneagles.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 07:33:48 AM by Mike_Clayton »

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2004, 01:51:49 PM »
Greg Turner is now writing a regular column in Golf Weekly here in the UK.  I quoted some of his architecture thoughts on a post a few months ago.  I shall be reading him with interest.

I think it is a myth that the Europeans (or the Brits, for that matter) would be more competitive in the Open if they played more on links and classic courses.  In the old days, when we did play these courses, we were still consistently outplayed in our own Open Championship by Americans, Australians, South Africans, New Zealanders, Argentinians and so on.  Look at the list of overseas players who have won our Amateur Championship.  They didn't get much practice on links courses.  The most skillful players will win, whatever the nature of the course.

Brian_Ewen

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Re:European Tour needs world-class courses
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2004, 02:02:32 PM »
Thanks Mark .