[Ran Morrissett]

Posting a Feature Interview with someone who is as knowledgeable and cares as passionately about a subject as Ralph Livingston is a great honor. And it is particularly rewarding to do so when the subject is pre-1935 golf, where there is so much mis-information.

In order to gain some measure of understanding as to the design intent of golf's Golden Age architects, surely one must seek a general understanding of how the game was played at that time. How far did the ball travel? What were its other playing characteristics? What kind of implements were used, their strengths and weaknesses? How much harder were bunker shots? The general conditioning of golf courses including such issues as irrigation, the amount of run, and green speeds?

Ralph is one of the very, very few people in the world who has this big picture grasp, and as such, he is an enormous resource and his Interview is chock full of facts and quotes. If you ever want to appreciate just how little you know, talk to Ralph - it is a humbling experience, let me tell you  

He is presently distinguishing the big, small, and extremely subtle differences in how the game was played in 1935 and 1926...and 1908.... and 1900....and pre-1885. And in the process of doing this extensive research, Ralph came to an interesting conclusion: the game is more fun if played with Hickories than by availing oneself of modern day golf clubs.

And when I think of so many of my all time favorites like Jasper Park and West Sussex and Swinley Forest and Maidstone and Banff and St. Enodoc and Eastward Ho! as being all the more fun as the variety of clubs required during a round increases, Ralph has turned me into a convert. Rather than wait on a special ball or the USGA   to do something, why not take matters into your own hands and start playing Hickories? I can't think of a single reason not to and thus, I am. When I charge over to the UK in October,  a set of hickories will be in tow.

For more information, please visit Ralph's web site at www.hickorygolf.com and in the meanwhile, GolfClubAtlas is very fortunate indeed to be able to post this fascinating Feature Interview.

Cheers,

[Michael Moore]

Very very interesting. Good to see that the Pro V1 is approved by the hickory folks.

Here is a link to a story I recently wrote for the New England Journal of Golf that gives a bit of history regarding Bob Jones and his work with Spalding and Milton Reach.

http://nejg.onecityinternet.com/ma/index.php

[Mike Hendren]

Fascinating.  Thank you Ran and Mr. Livingston.

Kindest regards,

Mike

[George Pazin]

Great interview. Thanks Mr. Livingston for providing such thoughtful answers.

Who's this Hunter guy? Obviously he's describing the current state of the game:

'When one watches the Titans at play, their tremendous drives often make their seconds absurdly easy. Holes of 440 yards are sometimes reduced to the drive-and-pitch variety, and their accuracy is often so machine-like that the game seems silly. But such golf is much more frequently seen inland than by the sea.'

The Links,  Robert Hunter

 

Wonder if it was inevitable that the inland golf courses would miss the mark, as compared to their seaside counterparts? (Wild generalization, I know, but it seems largely true.) Would golf be more entertaining today if inland course more closely reflected links, or is this a virtual impossibility?

[RSLivingston_III]

Michael;
Great story on Jones
Would you know anything about the Mashie and Mashie Iron that are displayed at Augusta in the torphy room? They are assumed to be Spalding made based on the general shape and face markings, but only have his name in script on the back as a kind of makers mark. Any idea what year he might have gotten them?
Thanks,
Ralph

[Norbert P]

Ran, I assume you'll be participating in the Hickory Tourney...

 "November 12-14 - Mid Pines Hickory Open Championship at Mid Pines Inn and Golf Club, Southern Pines, North Carolina (800.323.2114)"

  I sure hope Alfie Ward finds this thread.  He could use some optimistic news about hickory golf.

  Thanks again for another fine addition to your collection of historical interviews.

[Alfie]

Norbert,

Yes, I did see this post, and as usual, a wee bit late. But better late than never - and thus the rollback issue may continue for another 100 years ?

I'm the eternal optimist Norbert, and still see a great "future" in hickory golf. I hear, Scotland is now planning a new Hickory Golf venture at Hill of Tarvit at Cupar near St Andrews ? The National Trust for Scotland are involved so maybe that one will have a chance ?

I think Ran - by the sound of it - is another convert to the learning experience of the old game and must be complimented for securing the wisdom of Ralph's expertise and comments on here at GCA.

Hickory Golf aint dead - it's just reviving !

I sure hope hope Slag Bandoon never parts with his hickories ?

best regards,

Alfie

[T_MacWood]

A fascinating interview. What impresses me about these clubs is the craftmanship that went into them, they are almost works of art (with age they acquire a beautiful patina). In fact the game itself, with these hickory clubs, becomes more of an art form and more sporting IMO.

Ralph, in doing your research over the years what was your most surprising discovery?

Are their any super rare or lost golf clubs that you (and others) are searching for?

[RSLivingston_III]

Tom;
Glad you liked the article, it was great fun to research. I think I could do a book on just the quotes, there is so much information out there. I told Ran he had best cut me off or it would never get published.

The clubs can be great pieces of sculpture, somewhat less so for the 20th century as compared to the 19th century equipment. There is a lot to be obsessive about in the 1800's equipment. You have guys that were artists, Hugh Philp comes to mind first as he is considered the greatest club maker of all time, the Stradivarius of golf. To have people faking his clubs including his name stamp and others that ordered clubs for display in their homes as works of art, had to be the ultimate compliment to someone in that craft. I have been fortunate to see, and handle, a Wooden Niblick he made that is pristine and probably had never been played. If I remember correctly it is one of, if not the only example known from him. To be able to study it's form up close and feel it's weight and balance was a great opportunity I will not soon forget. It took every ounce of strength to resist the temptation of swinging it.  The owner had a replica commissioned of it to play with and I hope to have the opportunity to hit a feathery with that club.
Today, when his pieces come up for auction, the "value" based on the quality of the example can sell in the price range of BMW's offerings. Circa 1840's clubs from Philp do not come up very often.
As to a surprise discovery, with the NHC at Oakhurst (1880's era golf) coming up at the end I have started looking at the 1870-1890 era. While reading Horace Hutchison's Badminton Library, from 1890, he talks about the Eclipse ball that was finding some favor at the time. It was referred to as a "Putty" ball to intentionally rhyme with Gutty, but was actually a molded India rubber ball. The first solid rubber ball! It didn't go quite as far as the gutty, but it could be played with for a dozen rounds of golf or more. It also caused no damage to the equipment, as opposed to the Gutty which could help ruin a wood head club in a few rounds from it's hardness. One other thing I had never heard was a recommendation to purchase Iron clubs with good blade thickness as the Gutty could bend and dent the Irons. The club makers were complaining the Eclipse gave them no repair work and reduced their new/replacement club sales. There were calls to standardize on the Gutty or the Eclipse ball. This is something I want to research more. Most of the Gutty replica balls made today are actually made of rubber. There are a handful of "real" gutty reproductions made for use. I think Alfie was molding balls from Imported Gutty? The rubber replicas could be fairly representative of the Eclipse. This is something I will be looking in to.

There are many rare clubs I am looking for, unfortunately too numerous to list here.

With your research, I am interested in seeing any conflicting information you have. Or additions. I just hope people read some of the old books with a different perspective and glean some new information from them.

Looking forward to getting together again,
Ralph

[Alfie]

Ralph,

Great to see you posting here and compliments on your interview with Ran.

re the gutta's. I moulded a few hundred over a couple of year's when Arbory was still functional and had a friend analyse the gutta percha I was buying to compare the authenticity of the material. It worked out spot on (I'm looking at the test tubes now as I write !) using analysis by Prof Obach in the late 19th century. Raw gutta, extracted in a similar manner as the rubber tree, contains a percentage of bark / dirt / yellow resin / white resin and pure gutta. The mould (W.Park - The Ideal) was kindly on loan from none other than our mutual friend, the living legend who is Archibald (Archie) Baird from Kilspindie / Gullane. Archie has a small museum at Gullane which is well worth the visit to anyone reading this. (By appointment with Archie himself)
A failing on my part, was that I never got round to properly dating the origins of the mould but I'm fairly sure it was early enough to ensure use with pure gutta balls ? Gutta percha was supplied to the ball makers in rods approx 1 1/2 inch diameter by 3 feet long which made it easy to gauge the cutting of pieces prior to moulding (a critical factor).
One thing re - definition. A gutta ball was made with raw gutta percha as extracted from the tree. I believe that Stirk & Henderson highlighted the term "gutty" or "guttie" to differentiate the first gutta balls to that of the composite balls made later in the century. ex Stirk & Henderson's - Golf in the Making (a golfing bible for those interested)
Having said that, there does exist subtle differences of definition on both sides of the pond. "Floater" is another ?
The gutty (repro) balls you refer to (?) were made by the old Penfold company in Birmingham, England and were intended for simulation purposes only, and as you quite rightly say, are fairly representative.

Anyway, it's late. Hope to read more of your posts and learn a bit more about this wonderful game. Learning is what it's all about circa 2004 for the moden golfer as I agree with your comment that most just "don't get it" ! But they will if we keep shoving it at them ? I think we owe old Max that much !

best regards,

Alfie

[T_MacWood]

Ralph
No conflicting information. What is amazing to me, is the distance that they were able to achieve. Was it the firm ground or the tightly wound balls or something else? I suspect the distance achieved at 11th at Oakland Hills had to do with a turbo effect off the large hillock on the left, which might indicate the firmness of the ground. After trying to hit an old driver, it seems to me that club was designed for the ball to run like hell.

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