[JNC Lyon]

I just played one of his courses (Windermere in Georgia) and I was actually pleased with it despite the rides between greens and tees. I was just wondering who does the design work for DL3? Anyone played one of his courses?

[Steve Lang]

 

We played Anderson Creek while in Southern Pines Last year.  It was a bit of a ride to get there from SP, but an enjoyable 36 hole day of golf.  I was reminded of some Nicklaus/Norman courses where you would get the thought that you had to be the "name" or play like them to really play well there.  He didn't give you a lot of variety on the one shotters there, is one memory.

http://www.andersoncreekgolf.com/

[A.G._Crockett]

Windermere is a golf course that turned out very well on a piece of property that really could barely be a candidate to have a course at all.  I think that the Love team did good work there, and I don't know of any case in which they haven't.

I've also played at Laurel Island Links in Kingsland, GA, and liked it a lot.  Two pieces of land couldn't be more different than there and Windermere, so there's some versatility in the firm somewhere.  I haven't been to Forest Oaks since the Love team redid it, but my brother walked it during the Greensboro tour event and thought the work was superb.

[TEPaul]

Paul Cowley would be the one for information on Love and when he sees this thread title I'm sure he'll be on.

[Brian_Gracely]

I've played Andersen Creek once and a few times at The Preserve at Jordan Lake, which is just south of Raleigh.  I'd agree with Steve's assessment that both play very much like Davis' game....tee-shots must be long and straight, with an occasional minor draw or fade required.  Par3s require a shot of 200+ yards.  Greens are marginally interesting, usually surrounded by 1-3 amoeba bunkers.  

Andersen Creek was the site of one of the funniest shots I've ever seen.  My brother and I got paired with two good ole boys that showed up at the first with 24 beers and a 24-ball pack each.  Nice enough guys, but after losing a couple sleeves of balls on the first few holes (each), they decided that they weren't properly lubricated.  By the time we got to the 13th hole, they were down to single digits on all 3 boxes they brought and it was getting ugly.  What happened next could probably never be recreated with a bucket of balls...Bubba #1 hit his tee-shot off the heel of his club, it went between his legs and off the shin of Bubba #2...breaking the bone.  My brother and I almost fell out of the cart we were laughing so hard and trying not to make audible sounds.  Luckily for us it ended the day for the Bubba's and we were able to finish our 5hr round.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I have played Windermere and was pleasantly surprised. It's a public residential development course north of Atlanta. I remember elevation changes and a variety of holes-including an interesting driveable par 4. A friend from my club moved there a few years and I hooked up with him during a trip to Atlanta.

[Brock Peyer]

I have played Windermere several times but not in the last 2 or 3 years.  I like the course alot with the exception of a couple of holes.  The back nine starts off in an interesting way with a par four that you can nearly drive the green (I never have) and then an "all you can eat" par three of about 230ish yards.  I have mixed feelings about the 18th, a very reachable par five that you can find yourself driving into the side of a hill if you don't hit a driver or three wood with a high trajectory.  I do like ending with the potential for an eagle but I guess that it doesn't fit my eye with a driver because I hit a flatter driving trajectory.
I am a big DL3 fan and am anxious to play some more of his courses.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

I have been looking for a chance to post some pictures from a wonderful day Paul Cowley made happen at their new Patriot @ Grand Harbor last fall. Pete had Michael Whitaker and I out to see what they are working on.  I believe it is scheduled to open this spring/summer.

I was either too busy or just a bum and never got around to storing some of those photos online so that I could display them.  Maybe this will be my chance if I get some time later this week with my slow dial up service and can get those photos stored somewhere I will post some pictures of this unique project.

[Robert Thompson]

I've played Davis' Barefoot Landing course in Myrtle Beach, which has interesting bits, but a lot of forgettable holes.
I also tackled Shell Landing in Mississippi as part of a media trip, and I thought the course was significantly better than Barefoot. Love had an interesting piece of property and used the marsh to some impact on the back nine of the course. The par-3s were excellent -- well considered and smart.
It seems to me that Davis is a PGA Tour player that wants to put more of a stamp on his courses than simply adding his name for marketing purposes.
Of course, his brother Mark, Bob Spence and Paul Cowley are also actively involved.

Though I've only seen two courses, I'd like to see more....

Robert

[paul cowley]

robert....your're most correct in that davis is much more interested in golf design than a marketing opportunity.

for now, his ' day ' job requires alot of his attention and thats where the afformentioned design team come in to help him achieve his goals in golf design.

the 'patriot' course mentioned by turboe will open in the late spring this year....in greenwood s.c.

'kinderlou forest' in valdosta ga. ,will  open in early summer.

we hope you and others will get a chance to play these  latest design efforts ....and would enjoy your feedback.

paul

[A_Clay_Man]

Paul- Could you elaborate on some of the changes made at Wilshire CC?

I kick myself for not noticing more than the work on the barrancas.
Thanks

[J_McKenzie]

A_Clay_Man,

It has taken awhile for me to get to it, but Paul suggested I respond to your question.  Hopefully, better late than never.

Wilshire was and is an interesting project for us.  As with most renovation projects, we had to work to find a balance in bringing the course up-to-date and keeping the things that the membership liked about their course.  

From the first time we saw Wilshire, we really liked the traditional design elements and "classic feel" of the golf course.  Therefore, we never planned to make any substantial changes to the course other than improving playing condidtions and reintroducing some of the original playing strategies that had been lost over time.  Physically, the work we did amounted to rebuilding the tees- larger and laser leveled to increase usable square footage, adding drainage to dry-up trouble spots, and rebuilding the existing bunkers for better visibility, playability and maintenance.  Several new bunkers were added to replace bunkers that were no longer in play due to today's technology.  Some older trees were removed for maintenance and playability, while a few new trees were added to screen the surrounding properties.  No length could really be added, as the course already maximizes the existing property.

Finally, we suggested work be done to the barranca, bridges and cart paths to improve aesthetics and create uniformity throughout the golf course.  A fun and successful project that, from what I hear, has been well received by the membership.  

[Bill_McBride]

Are you talking about Wiltshire CC in Los Angeles? (barranca etc?).   When was this work done?

[J_McKenzie]

Bill,

Yes, I am referring to Wilshire C.C. in Los Angeles.  To clarify, we provided the membership with a long-range plan and the work was performed in house or by subs hired by the club.  This majority of this work took place in 1997-1998.  We are now basically consulting as needed.

John

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks, John.  I'm going out to LA for Kings Putter III, know a member at Wilshire and may try to get a look.  Did you see any of the finished product?

[J_McKenzie]

Bill,

I was able to visit the golf course after the bulk of the work was completed in 1998 or 1999.  Unfortunatlely, I had not seen the course prior to the renovation.  

Much of the work was cosmetic, so there wasn't a dramatic change made to the course.  Playing conditions were greatly improved and the bunker renovation, plus work on the barranca, made the biggest visual impression.  The Champions Tour, as it is now called, played at Wilshire during this time and I believe the players response was very positive to the work that was done.  I know Joe Inman liked it, I think he won going away the year after the improvements were made.

I'm sorry, but I can't be much help with access to the course.

John

[A_Clay_Man]

J-Mckenzie, Paul, Thanx for the detailed response. The only question I have (and it is more general, than specific to WCC)

 Do, laser level teeing grounds really give an old style feel?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I also liked his work at Shell Landing and look forward to playing there again this spring and making a detailed review of it then.

[J_McKenzie]

A_Clay_Man,

Paul can answer this better from a design and construction perspective, but my understanding is that laser leveling would not add to or detract from an "old style feel".  The benefit of laser leveling, outside of the obvious, is improved drainage and maintenance.  The tee can be shaped for whatever style the designer is trying to achieve (i.e.- round, square), then just the tee top is laser leveled to achieve a desired percentage grade.  I believe a level teeing ground has always been the goal in golf course design.

Tiger_Bernhardt,

Thanks for the kind words.  Shell Landing serves as a good example that solid, fun and playable courses can be built for a reasonble price and that some player-designers, contrary to popular opinion, understand construction budgets and how to work within them.

John

 

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