[Mike_Sweeney]

Check out National's historical climb up the Golf Digest rankings:

National Golf Links of America, Southampton, N.Y.
C.B. Macdonald, 1909.
Ranked for 20 years:

America's 200 Toughest Courses (1967-1968)

OFF 1969-1984

America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1985-1986) – Sixth 10 - No. 56
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1987-1988) – Sixth 10 - No. 56
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1989-1990) – Fourth10 - No. 33
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1991-1992) – Fourth10 - No. 34
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1993-1994) – Third 10 - No. 22
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1995-1996) – Second10 - No. 19
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1997-1998) – Second 10 - No. 14
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1999-2000) – Second 10 - No. 17
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2001-2002) – Second 10 – No. 16
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2003-2004) – Second 10 – No. 19


In 1966, neither National, Shinnecock or Maidstone made the original 200 Toughest Courses by Golf Digest. Then Shinnecock and Maidstone quickly settled into their now traditional position area.

Why was National off the list for 15 years, and what is the reason they got back? Was it Karl Olson, a change in architectural trends or is it that raters have and will continue to suck ?

[Jim Franklin]

Ask Matt Ward, wasn't he a rater back then?

[Keith Durrant]

Reviewing the historic GD rankings does throw up a fair number of anomalies/trends, e.g.

Cypress Point C., Pebble Beach, Calif.
Alister Mackenzie & Robert Hunter, 1928.
Ranked for all 37 years.
America's 200 Toughest Courses (1966)
America's 200 Toughest Courses (1967-1968)
America's 100 Most Testing Courses (1969-1970) – Third 10
America's 100 Greatest Tests of Golf (1971-1972) – Fifth 10
America's 100 Greatest Tests of Golf (1973-1974) – Fifth 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1975-1976) – Second 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1977-1978) – Second 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1979-1980) – First 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1981-1982) – First 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1983-1984) – First 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1985-1986) – First 10 - No. 3
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1987-1988) – First 10 - No. 2
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1989-1990) – First 10 - No. 4
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1991-1992) – First 10 - No. 3
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1993-1994) – First 10 - No. 4
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1995-1996) – First 10 - No. 4
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1997-1998) – First 10 - No. 3
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1999-2000) – First 10 - No. 3
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2001-2002) – First 10 – No. 4
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2003-2004) – First 10 – No. 3

What happened to Cypress Point to increase its recognition?

Crystal Downs G.C., Frankfort, Mich.
Alister Mackenzie & Perry Maxwell, 1933.
Ranked for 14 years.
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1989-1990) – Second 10 - No. 16
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1991-1992) – Second 10 - No. 11
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1993-1994) – Second 10 - No. 14
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1995-1996) – Second 10 - No. 13
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1997-1998) – Second 10 - No. 18
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1999-2000) – Second 10 - No. 16
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2001-2002) – Second 10 – No. 19
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2003-2004) – Third 10 – No. 23

Did Crystal Downs get a makeover in the late 80s?! from outside the top 100 to 16 is a fair jump !

The Country Club (Clyde/Squirrel 9s), Brookline, Mass.
[From 1985-1995 the U.S. Open composite course was ranked.]
Willie Campbell, 1893; Nipper Campbell, 1902; William Flynn added holes 1927. Remodeled by Rees Jones 1986.
Ranked for 35 years.
America's 200 Toughest Courses (1966)
OFF 1967-1968
America's 100 Most Testing Courses (1969-1970) – Fifth 10
America's 100 Greatest Tests of Golf (1971-1972) – Fifth 10
America's 100 Greatest Tests of Golf (1973-1974) – Fifth 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1975-1976) – Second 50
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1977-1978) – Second 50
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1979-1980) – Second 50
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1981-1982) – Second 50
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1983-1984) – Second 50
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1985-1986) – Fifth 10 - No. 46
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1987-1988) – Sixth 10 - No.53
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1989-1990) – Second 10 - No. 11
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1991-1992) – Second10 - No. 18
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1993-1994) – Second 10 - No. 17
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1995-1996) – First 10 - No. 10
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1997-1998) – Second 10 - No. 13
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (1999-2000) – Second 10 - No. 12
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2001-2002) – Second 10 – No. 13
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2003-2004) – Second 10 – No. 11

TCC - Another late 80s improver...were the rules changed at that point?

There are any number of Nicklaus and Dye course which debuted in the top 40 and within half a dozen years slip down and then off the list. Is this changing fashions or just simply the failure of the rating system to distinguish newness/hype from product.

[Mike Benham]

And, if I recall (Pat will correct me if I am wrong), Pat Mucci is expecting National to improve its ranking with the Open at Shinnecock this year ...

[APBernstein]

This is just speculation on my part, but it may have to do with the general trends in both golf appreciation and golf course architecture.  During the period of (approximately) 1950-1980, the types of golf courses being designed and appreciated had changed dramatically from the "classical" style of years before.

For example, take a look at the GW Top 100 Modern list and the courses on that list built during this period:

Of a period of 53 years, only 14 of the 100 courses were built during this period.  Of those 14, some are very good, like Harbour Town and The Golf Club.  But these courses were a departure from the general style of the period.  Its tough to properly describe a period of architecture in just a sentence or two, but these few decades produced courses that were largely devoid of a lot of the architectural elements that we value on this site today.  They were also very different than the courses mentioned above, like Cypress Point or National, Crystal Downs or The Country Club.

Around the 1980s, though, the style of architecture changed and a glut of new courses emerged, which moved away from the previous decades' style in many ways.

I would credit this shift in style and appreciation with the ratings improvement for these more "classic" courses.

[Peter_Herreid]

I might suspect that the quantum leap for the Country Club came after its exposure during the 1988 Open, which was the re-emergence of the (composite) course back onto the national stage...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Benham,

You are correct.

I feel that NGLA will benefit from additional exposure due to the US Open at Shinnecock.

And, I feel that after the US Open has left Shinnecock, that fewer trees are in it's future.

Mike Sweeney,

TEPaul is a Johnny come lately when it comes to NGLA.

[Tom_Doak]

The leap for Crystal Downs came when finally enough people came to see it so that it was ranked.  Until the late 1980's ... when I became a member and encouraged a handful of guests to come and see it ... it was simply an unknown quantity to 99% of golf people, even panelists.

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