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JakaB

Re:Raterphobia...get over it or kiss GCA goodbye..
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2004, 01:05:49 PM »
Scott,

I started the BBGE to try to make golf better...it is fully funded by the committee and asks for nothing from anyone.  The first goal...a noble and cheap effort...was to get more people to buy and read Geoff's book..The Future of Golf in America.   I have only had one taker thus far...This surprises me because there were so many complaints that the book was not provided for free on the net.   If I offended you asking you if you were a rater...I am sorry because I think you are both a friend and good for golf.

I will send you a question list to see if you qualify for the ratings panel of the BBGE....I think you would be a great asset to our or any panel that you may serve.

One of the lucky ones,

JK

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raterphobia...get over it or kiss GCA goodbye..
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2004, 01:14:48 PM »
John,  

If this is truly serious, then I look forward to checking it out.  
But can you understand my skepticism?

I do plan on buying the book myself sometime soon.  $15 is almost giving it away.  I have Grounds for Golf (which was also quite affordable), but I also have several other books I'm waiting to delve into.  Too little time.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2004, 01:15:09 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raterphobia...get over it or kiss GCA goodbye..
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2004, 03:04:53 PM »
Scott, just to clarify one aspect of all this.  Barney may have his provocatuer tendancies that drive us all nuts.  But, he ain't no piker or welsher. 8)  I thought it was a hoot to hold JakaB's feet to the fire when he offered to buy our books.  By golly, the $15 check is sitting right here on my desk, and the darn book still hasn't arrived from Amazon! :o ::) ;D

As for the raterphobia stuff, my own view that I have stated on here dozens of times is along the same lines of ZZZZZZZ...

This same old stuff comes up every year.  I feel spring in the air today, and hope everyone gets out on the course soon, before more raters call other raters, no good-low down- dirty raters. ::) :P

I'm glad to see folks are still getting to use the Mystic Pizza or whatever that site is called, because at least we are getting to see more of what people mean by certain things they are talking about.  I say, more pictures less ratings... ;D

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Raterphobia...get over it or kiss GCA goodbye..
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2004, 03:07:07 PM »
JakaB,

I am sometimes disappointed later when I write in a forthright manner, and i am disappointed when I tread lightly.  However, I think being forthright is more honest which is what everyone on here deserves.  If you spend the time to read and respond you hate to have someone playing games with you, which I think has caused some anguish on here.  I think if someone I respected contacted me privately and said you are doing harm to yourself, i would have to give serious thought to just browsing and not participating, but again if you can not speak plainly, bluntly sometimes, and in a really open honest manner then you probably are not worth listening to anyway, and why would you want to do business with someone who couldn't do that. I have made so many wonderful contacts on here and learned a good deal about many things it seems to far outweigh any negatives.  But as Tom Doak implied one time I am far too idealistic which might translate into being naive as well, so I may just be too dumb to know the harm I am causing! After all how could Tom Doak be wrong!

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raterphobia...get over it or kiss GCA goodbye..
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2004, 03:18:11 PM »
RJ,

Thanks.  Barney does stick to his guns when he wants to.  Sat through his 60-day hiatus as promised.

He sent me the questionnaire via IM.  I still don't understand the real (deep down) purpose, though.  The 'provocateur tendencies' thing is always going to hang over his posts IMO.

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Raterphobia...get over it or kiss GCA goodbye..
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2004, 07:02:40 PM »
If you want to know why this type of discussion is
inevitable, and happens to all internet forums eventually,
read this:

"A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy"
http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

JohnK, thanks for the great link. (I'm really, really tempted to start a new thread called, "Please read this if you care for the future of GolfClubAtlas!" and simply post that URL.) But I disagree with your conclusion - that article says that all groups inevitably attack themselves, but it does strongly suggest that it should be possible to design your discussion forum in such a way to render such attacks relatively harmless.

Without moderation, GCA will eventually die a death - of that I'm certain. The reasons it has done so well so far are, to my mind, the following:

1) It's a niche subject. People aren't going to wander into this forum unless they're attracted to golf course architecture in some form in the first place.

2) The average poster is both intelligent and cares for the forum. That means a lot - GCA.com won't implode through maliciousness or stupidity (I don't think).

And that's about it. Those are two very strong pillars, but they number only two. Fact is, this website has no proper defenses (e.g. moderation) against "attack"; it has an ever-increasing tendency to stray off-message; and it has a libertarian streak which may ultimately prove fatal. For this last point, I'd cite the following quote from that article: you need to accept that "The core group has rights that trump individual rights in some situations." And for the point about straying from message, I'd quote this:

"The user of social software is the group, not the individual. I think we've all been to meetings where everyone had a really good time, we're all talking to one another and telling jokes and laughing, and it was a great meeting, except we got nothing done. Everyone was amusing themselves so much that the group's goal was defeated by the individual interventions."

Seriously...go out and read that article. It'll take you some time, and the middle section isn't entirely relevant to us, but it'll be worth it. And if enough of you haven't read it and reported back in a day or two, I might have to start that new thread after all... ;)

Cheers,
Darren

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