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Bobr

Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« on: March 07, 2004, 02:48:41 PM »
What would you estimate a reasonable yearly equipment spend for 110 acre, hilly facility with small greens?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 02:52:39 PM by Bobr »

Joe Hancock

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Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2004, 03:56:08 PM »
Bobr,

Unfortunately, it would be near impossible to answer your question without knowing whats already there, what the goals and expectations are, etc.

Consider this:

New, top of the line riding greens mower: $17-$20k

Similar Fairway mower: $26-$32K

Rough mower, self contained (not pull behind): $35-$50k

So, whats in the barn? How good does it have to be?

For me, I own and operate an 18 hole, affordable daily fee. Last week, I bought a used fairway mower from a local Palmer course for $1500 dollars. If i get 2 seasons out of it, it won't owe me a nickel. Once again, what are the needs and expectations?

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2004, 11:10:26 PM »
We got rid of all our old stuff three years ago and now lease everything for $5,700 a month.  Private club, 35K rounds a year, 12 month operation.  I'm not sure what happens at the end of the lease but I'm told we get all new equipment after 7 yrs.  We do pay for upkeep so it could be a lousy deal.  We just built a new barn/cart storage building for $300K.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2004, 11:21:13 PM »
Look, I'm no expert, though I know a little, not enough to hurt me none...  This inquiry was about to set me off and write some things that wouldn't be too delicate.  Suffice it to say that this is the thing I feel most empathy for superintendents.  

As a board member, you certainly have your members best financial interest to oversee, and balance that with some reasonable expectations as to the goals you set in regards to the level of maintenance that is is appropriate to expect and achieve at your facility.  But, can't you see how patently unfair it is to come on here and start second guessing your superintendent with NO SCRAP OF RELAVANT INFORMATION.  What credence could you possible put in any shot in the dark answer you could receive here over the professional judgement of the superintendent YOU HIRED to do the job you told him or her you wanted done?

There are proper ways to do a sort of "due diligence" investigation of COMPARATIVE maintenance costs.  For one thing, you could find a local CPA that does the books of regional clubs (public daily fee or private) and CONSULT to find COMPARATIVE costs of SIMILAR FACILITIES.  If you have Municipal courses, you should be able to get the books as a taxpayer.  That may take some work.  But doing a little leg work in a professional manner would be far better than taking a shot on an open forum.  

Another thing you could do is research on your own by taking an affiliate membership in GCSAA and paying for and studying their many books and literature on the topics including reading some to the comparative studies they sponsor on various costs of GCM. All relavant costs of equipment are available to you, and all you have to do is trust some professional (if you don't trust the turf professional YOU HIRED)  to consult based on what your prestated expections fo the level of maintenance your members desire.  BUT DON'T START MOVING THE BAR ON THE POOR SUPER, AND EXPECT HIM/HER TO DO WHAT SOME KNUCKLEHEADS WHISPER IN YOUR EAR.

PS:  I am not calling Bill or Joe an knucklehead either.   But, they can only tell you generalities, which is fine.  But, do it based on proper comparatives in your area and based on your goals and needs.  
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 11:24:09 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2004, 06:31:23 AM »
Bobr,

RJ is right....straight-forward, but right. I hope my posts didn't in any way bring the super's ability or integrity into question.

Bobr, you have the right to ask questions. I would suggest you meet with your super and ask him questions about what the facilities needs are based on the expectations, which I have to believe were expressed when he interviewed for the job. I think most of the time you'll only find venom in this type of post when it doesn't appear that you're facilities problem solving is a team effort. Don't try to figure this out alone. Do it as a board, with your super totally involved. He is no dummy. If he is, that doesn't speak well for the board that hired him!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2004, 07:27:14 AM »
I would think 75-100K a year would cover it

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2004, 08:03:21 AM »
I would have thought that the super in question would have put together a fairly hefty proposal doc for such a request. This would have included all the justifications for the increases.
There will of course be significant benefits to be enjoyed. For example course conditioning, servicing and repair costs, health and safety and associated increased revenue and profits as a result. All of this would have been detailed in the proposal.
As a very rough rule of thumb, if you take the new replacement costs of all your existing plant and divide that by the expected shelf life of the machinery (say five years) your not going to be far off. Based on that, 125K wouldn’t be out of the question.

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2004, 09:17:05 AM »
Bobr;  I noticed that you did not list a location for your course.  This is relevant as the length of season, number of rounds, types of grasses etc.  all come into play.  Additionally, the number of acres under cultivation, the ratio of fairway to rough, the number and types of bunkers are also relevant.  Nonetheless, some of the golf associations share information among their clubs and some superintendents engage in informal information sharing.  That kind of information will be far more useful than the generalized info we can provide.

gookin

Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2004, 01:50:34 PM »
This past fall, we completed a detailed study of the capital equipment situation at our club.  With the help of our superintendent we determined that we had been systematically under spending on new, and the repair and maintenance was killing us.  As we addressed our equipment replacement needs, we found that due to the current economic conditions facing the equipment manufacturers, equipment buyers could negotiate substantial discounts on equipment (25 to 30%) if you were willing to create an equipment package over $200,000.  With current interest rates, it will make sense to accelerate several years worth of purchases to qualify for discounts and borrow the money to pay for the equipment.  Additional returns will come from reduced repair and maintenance expense and better turf quality resulting from newer mowers.  If you have access to capital, I encourage you to consider this solution.

In addition, the USGA green section agent in your part of the country can be a great source of information.

Pat Sisk

Re:Ground & Greens Equipment Spend
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2004, 02:04:07 PM »
RJ,

Well said.

Pat Sisk

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