[Chris_Clouser]

Does anyone have a good photo they can put up on the board?

Chris

[Ben C. Dewar]

 

I have a few more, but I like this one.

[Chris_Clouser]

that's fine.

thanks

[Ben C. Dewar]

What is it for?

[Paul Richards]

Will be playing this hole next week.

It looks awesome.

[Bob_Huntley]

Ben:

Did you pick a line that you thought was more than conservaative and almost hit the water? I think that is the brilliance of the hole, the challenge to the ego.

[Ben C. Dewar]

Bob,
You only live once don't you? Ha.

I took a more dangerous line then I should have, but I hit a big drive and hit a nine iron in stiff.  Great hole for me.

I played with two really great players and they both went out right, more out of fear then anything else.

Regards

[Ran Morrissett]

The growth along the lake line near the green is criminal - why don't they rip it out?? The naked green complex would be much more AWESOME in appearance and I think the approach would become more frightening with the clear sight of Mangrove Lake.

[Mike_Cirba]

Ran,

Yes, great point.

Not to mention the trees on the far side of the fairway which effectively do two things;

1) Force the stronger golfer to play more aggressively, lest he drive through and be stymied.  That might sound good on the face of it, but I believe that anything that eliminates options is bad on the face of it.

2) Take away the option of a daring second shot with the ball above feet and water left.  Instead, one would punch out to where an aggressive drive landed, making the hole much more boring.

They have the picture of how it looked originally in Geoff's book.  That pic says more than the 1000 words we've posted on the subject.

[Tom_Doak]

Ran,

As you may know, this is one of the places we consult.  

That's Mangrove Lake on the left, and the growth on the left are mangroves, which the government wants to protect.  They have cut them back a couple of times, but they aren't allowed to remove them.

The little palm tree on the approach is horrible, and needs to be taken out, but they haven't given me the chain saw yet.  Maybe next year!

[Matt_Davenport]

Tom,
If you are consulting at Mid-Ocean, why don't you stop next door at Castle Harbour?  On my last visit, a few years ago, I saw a "nice girl next door" that could be something special with a discretionary hand and some expenditure of funds.  What struck me were the number of bunkers left to grow-in that were, in some cases, beneath the blasted cart path, or outside of it.  Although Castle Harbour is not long, the elevation changes, and contoured putting surfaces, on the course can present a challenge to scoring.

[TEPaul]

That hole is something to behold! It is probably also in the top dozen  photographable holes in the world.

But why exactly is it such a good hole? I could be wrong but I think the answer lies in the perfect angle of the diagonal carry! That angle sets the distance and accuracy implications of the tee shot just about perfectly! It looks to me like the angle is about 45%. Does it matter that the extension of the fairway angle if taken back to near the tee would be well to the RIGHT of the tee? I'm not very mathmetical, nor do I understand geometry well but it would seem  that's the key. This fairway has to be set as perfect as could be for the implications of a perfect distance and DIRECTION combo! Setting angles and diagonals can't be easy in golf architecture when considering distance and direction but this one sure looks like perfection.

The mangroves don't really bother me and it looks like the beginning of them are almost straight at the tee which means to me that if you hit them you would have been in the water anyway if they weren't there. The important thing to me with the mangroves is that they never grow large enough to obscure the green from the tee. Keeping the green visible from the tee has that added pyschological effect of pulling the golfer at it and potentially screwing up his aim and his concentration (which should be solely on the fairway and its angle options)--one of my favorite subtle tricks in golf architecture!  

[Ben C. Dewar]

Matt,
Castle Harbour has been redone, it is now Tucker's Point.  I saw a of the holes, a mix of a reno, and some new holes.

Regards

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