[Ben DeLow]

One player our of the 312 best amateurs in the world shoots even par, and that's with one afternoon of a semi-strong breeze at Pebble Beach. Now, something tells me there is something wrong here with the setup, because Pebble Beach is a sound design that does reward good play if there is room for the player to attack the course. And with no wind, there should be some decent scores. So what does the USGA's setup man say?"If we could have played the Open here this week, it would have been an awfully good test," said Tom Meeks, the USGA's director of competitions. "But to be honest with you, I hope we get some wind." What, so the players can really be punished? Did he forget what happened in 1992? Whatever happened to finding who the best GOLFER is, not the best survivor? Has Tom Meeks ever played competitive golf at a high level? Doesn't sound like it. If he had, he'd understand it's not as easy to shoot a low score on a great course as he apparently thinks it is.

[Scott Kraus]

Well said. The USGA has lost the plot. In their overzealous attempt to preserve "par,"they are ruining the integrity of every single design they touch.David Eger, if you are out there, did you agree with the set-up of Pebble Beach? Were you involved with the 1992 set-up?

[Ran Morrissett]

Well said - Part II. I agree completely. Pebble's defenses are the superb design, the weather, and its miniscule greens with slope.The USGA should go the Augusta route and have just enough rough so that the players fly the ball to (and then over) the green. From there, they are d-e-a-d. That kind of set-up would be infinitely more interesting than watching Nicklaus have to hack out of rough when he went one yard over the 8th green in 1992.Plus, the driver remains in their hands, an must absolute for exciting golf.

[Bob Ellington]

Part 3, well said. Since Nicklaus in '86, my favorite major has been watching Greg Norman storm through at Royal St. Georges. It was exciting because 1. it was a great leader board (Faldo, Langer, Couples, Pavin, Els, etc.) and 2. the pros hit driver more times than not. Why can't the USGA set up their seaside tournaments in a similar fashion?

[Andy North]

Because then Steve Jones and I couldn't get together each year and have an expensive dinner! Without the USGA, our families would be starving. Thanks USGA for identifing us as the best of the best!

[DBE]

Re:  Pebble BeachYes, I was the one who set up the course for the 1992 Open.  If you remember, Gil Morgan was ten or 12 under par through 57 holes and then started self destructing.  When the weather forecast for Sunday was completely wrong (the same overcast skies and light wind was also predicted for all day Sunday), the sun broke through the clouds about 10:30, the wind picked up and blew about 30 mph I felt like crawling under a rock.  Pebble Beach is extremely difficult in wind more than about 15 mph, and with firm greens, I thought it was brutally difficult.  The word "Links" after Pebble Beach is inaccurate.  Only six greens are open enough in front allowing balls to roll or bounce on (#'s 2,3,6,10,13 and 15), and the greens are so shallow that downwind shots don't stand much chance of coming to rest on the other greens.  It's not fair when the wind is blowing hard and the ground is hard.  Shortly before the 1992 Open, Pebble Beach Company redid all their fairways and roughs in rye grass.  This was done to eliminate the kikua grass that had gotten out of hand.  Anyway, because everything was rye grass, fairway widths (and roughs) could be easily changed as close as eight weeks prior to the Open.  Several fairways were moved and except for #13, several fairways were widened.  Specifically, any fairway with slope was widened--#4,9,10 and 14).  Although most par four holes at Pebble are not driver tee shots, with the firm fairways, some needed to be wider.What the winning score would have been had the wind stayed down on that bloody Sunday would have most likely been ten or more under par.  The course is wonderful but it's not that tough without 15 mph of wind.  

[Clark]

Ben:I'm afraid you're right regarding the USGA and in particular Tom Meeks.  Several people say he has poor judgement, no clue about golf and a huge ego.  I once played behind him and his game was hardly impressive -- probably a 10 at best.I have a suspicion that David Eger might have been referring to him in his interview.

[DBE]

I've just learned from someone who was a Rules Official at both the 1992 US Open and this year's US Amateur (and who I respect as a person without prejudice) that the set up for PB during the US Amateur was different from the US Open set up.  In addition, hole placements were at times marginal in fairness. Apparently fairways were shaped awkwardly thus making it difficult for tee shots to come to rest on them and for approach shots to be played into greens. But as I've heard for years: "it's the same for everybody."

[Ben DeLow]

But as I've heard for years: "it's the same for everybody." Yes, that's a wonderful reasoning isn't it? You hear it so often. Well, I sat through a lousy movie the other day with a lot of other people. We all had to sit through it. But that doesn't mean we can't criticize it and expect better, does it? Is it me or is the USGA relying too heavily on this mentality to justify Tom Meeks and Trey Holland's consistent bastardization of great courses?

[George Blunt]

There remains only one question:  who is going to e-mail this post to the USGA and cc the R&A, the AGU and every other golf union that thinks that we want to see players of incredible talent reduced to babbling wrecks?They should include video footage of David Frost at this year's British Open when he spent at least 10 mins arguing with a rules offical in order to get a drop from the rough back onto a cartpath as he could not play his ball back into the fairway!  What a wonderful test of golf, what vision.

[Scott Kraus]

Though we all agree that the USGA constantly gets the course set-up wrong, at least they don't pick Valhalla. Who is Meeks' equivalent at the PGA and where does he keep his seeing eyed dog?

[BarnyF]

Looks like you guys knew how to have fun in the 90's

[GarySmith]

As far as the U.S. Open setup goes, I'm always torn between the desire to see exciting golf with wider fairways a la Ran's post versus the belief that straight driving should be a requirement for a national championship.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben DeLow, A.K.A. ?I believe Tom Meeks tried to qualify for the USGA Mid-Amateur on a few occassions. Would that qualify him as competing at a high level ?  I forget the Handicap requirement for the US Mid-An, but would imagine it's around 4-5.Tom Meeks has been setting up golf courses for a variety of USGA competitions for many years.I believe he has a far better understanding of course set-up than you do.Can people make mistakes on course set-up and anticipated weather conditions, yep, it happens, but all competitors must play that course, under those conditions, hence there's a unique equality about the mistake.Would you tell me, in fact, in depth, and in hole by hole detail, what courses Tom Meeks bastardized.Scott Kraus,Would you also address the above question with respect to your statement that they are ruining the integrity of every design they touch.Andy North,Lee Trevino said that anybody can win the US OPEN once, But it takes a rare talent to win it twice.  Can you name the other two time winners of the US Open ? It's not a long list.Clark,  A.K.A. ?Do you know Tom Meeks personally ?Have you spent any time with him ?How do you come by your conclusions?Tom Meeks is an intelligent individual, with a very good understanding of golf, absent a huge ego.By the way, what was Seth Raynor's handicap ?How about Charlie Banks ?Tom Meeks's handicap was low enough to qualify him for entry in the USGA Mid-Am, so how bad a golfer could he be.  What is your handicap ?  How many courses have you set up for National competitions ?George Blunt,I understand there is a movement afoot, to allow players in the US OPEN to play back to the fairways from OUT OF BOUNDS, no penalty.I also understand that free drops from water hazards will be permitted, at the point of entry.  A third proposal, to allow teeing the ball up in bunkers was voted down on a tie breaker because most players felt the groomed sand provided the most optimal lie for recovery, and that bunkers were no longer a hazard.David Eger,If the wind hadn't picked up Sunday, and a little rain fell early in the morning instead, these same people would be screaming the the USGA set-up was too easy.I don't want to see desert like scores win the US OPEN.  I want the best players in the world to experience STRESS, even a sense of unfairness, let doubt creep into their minds and their swings.Why didn't everyone scream when the USGA set up Shinnecock ?  Adding tees, altering fairways, and the pace of the greens ?Ben, Scott, Andy, Clark, and George, what role does the host club play in making changes to their golf course ?Could you be specific with respect to the club, hole changes, etc.,etc..

[David Wigler]

Patrick,While I appreciate your zeal and don't dispute your points, I think BarneyF was joking in pulling this post forward and I am not sure that people who chose to be anonomous over two years ago are going to reveal themselves toady.  One question though -- Wouldn't Andy North be on that list of two time Open Winners?

[GarySmith]

As this thread originated over 2 years ago, some of the people you query may no longer be around, so nobody hold their breath waiting for all to respond.For the non-responders, I suggest BarneyF be their stand-in.  Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.

[Patrick_Mucci]

David Wigler,Yes, he won it twice, no ordinary feat.Dave and Gary,Okay, so I had a little time on my hands and posted into cyber-space.

[Dennis_Harwood]

An interesting sidelight to the '99 US AM at Pebble and the scores--The "model" scratch golfer which is the mythical model used to set the course rating for almost all courses in the world(except some in the Isles) is defined as the golfer who shoots the average score to qualify for the match play at the US AM(ie the 32nd qualifier in the stroke play qualifing)--Raters use that mythical player and his defined skills as a model to fix a course's rating--In the '99 Am at Pebble many statistics were taken to determine if the defined "model" (his skill at driving distance, bunker skills, recovery skills, etc) would hold up given the field of possibly improved golfers for the '99 AM--The findings were yes-- The field fit the model perfectly (except the ball was being hit further--surprize surprize) and given the course rating of Pebble--75.1--It would be expected that the qualifiers would average 151 for two rounds--They did--Sounds like the set-up was perfect to me!  

[Dr._Katz]

Mr. Mucci:Excellent comments.  You GO, girl!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dr. Katz,Does this mean I no longer need therapy ?

[aclayman]

Pat- It's sounds to me like he's giving you permission to go girl?DE- As I recall the collars and aprons were all resodded at PB just prior to the am in 99'. I remember it as being totally unfair due to the proximity of the event and made any attempt to predict bumps and runs difficult.

[Dr._Katz]

Mr. Mucci:No!!!

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