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Doug Siebert

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Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« on: January 12, 2004, 12:13:40 AM »
In reading the bunker rakes thread with its sideline about maintenance costs, I started thinking about how cost of maintenance influences architecture.

As I see it, there is a two stage future for golf course maintenance.  From now into the near to mid term future, cost will continue to rise since the cost of labor to perform the work will only go up.  At some point, humans will be able to be removed from the equation, partially at first, and eventually completely.

1)  What will be the effect of increasing maintenance cost on architecture?  How will it effect the ongoing maintenance of existing courses?

2)  What will change when maintenance costs begin to drop as the human equation is removed and automation is eventually less expensive?  What will happen when every course can afford to be maintained to the level of detail of ANGC?  Will even munis stimp at 15 in 2050?

3)  Will it be better or worse for the game when you have a Roomba-like device sensing the mowing boundaries of the greens and fairways via buried wires so it mows EXACTLY the same way every time?  Will kids enjoy the driving range as much aiming at a robot picking up the balls instead of a real live guy inside a cage?  Will DMoriarty try to trip up Matt Ward's sense of fairness by digging up the mowing wires along a tight fairway and moving them a few yards?
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Don_Mahaffey

Re:Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2004, 08:37:10 AM »
I don't think the human equation will ever be completely removed. Someone needs to care for the machines and there will always be management tasks that need to be done.

Dave M isn't going to have much luck changing fwy widths as the mowing units being developed will be guided by GPS, BTW the grass will be cut with lasers. The cost of using these machines will slow their acceptance, and the fact that whether we here want to believe it or not, golf is a game that most view as traditional and I don't think a robotic greens crew will be accepted everywhere

A_Clay_Man

Re:Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2004, 10:47:16 AM »
With the market becoming more competitive, one would think (hope) that costs would be lowered. Isn't it the pampered and fickle consumer, that managements tries to attract, the real reason for the higher costs.

I know I have seen wondeful results from a crew size of nine (8 + the super)(Stanford) to acceptable conditions from a crew size of 5. (4 + super)

Why is it that many other consumer products have been relatively stable in price but every nut bolt and sprinkler head for a golf course goes up 3% a year, every year (just paraphrasing for affect).

Not enough competition in the irrigation business? or too many oinkers?

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2004, 11:10:11 AM »
Doug,

I'm with Don on this.
The human element will never be removed.
What scares me is, who will set the perameters on the fairway lines for the GPS mowers ?  ;D

A Clayman,

I don't see anything in sight that will cause costs to decrease.
And, as water gets scarce, its cost will escalate.

Clubs that continue to do things as they always have will have more of a burden on keeping costs under control.

At some clubs I'm familiar with, there is a trend to spend money and labor on creating "beautification projects".
This also directs the focus away from the golf course and makes the superintendents job more difficult.  These projects are expensive to maintain and drain funds and labor away from the golf course.

How many clubs already burden the superintendent with the responsibility of maintaining the clubhouse grounds and flowers, the tennis court, and pool area and flowers, all of which come out of the green budget, without the ability to back charge the other departments/areas.

It is not uncommon to see non-playing areas groomed and irrigated just like the golf course.  WHY ?

If clubs keep doing things as they have in the past, their costs will rise faster than others who make maintainance a part of their long range planning, and devote serious time to studying the problem.

Then, as the realization that the green budget is mushrooming hits them, they'll seek to cut back in and on the wrong areas.
I've seen this cycle, and diversion from the focus and funds on the GOLF COURSE contains the seeds of destruction for the golf course.

You only have to look at what happened to golf courses during the depression and during WW II to understand how monetary crunches, labor crunches or both can result in the altering and disfiguring of a golf course.

Clubs better address the maintaince issues NOW,
in a current and long term perspective or they will wake up one day when it's too late.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2004, 11:12:03 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

A_Clay_Man

Re:Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2004, 11:20:45 AM »
I don't see anything in sight that will cause costs to decrease.
And, as water gets scarce, its cost will escalate.

What about designing-in lower long term maintenance costs? Or designing course without the need for so much water.

Wouldn't these types of creative design solutions be the way to lower costs. Plus Pat, your model seems to keep conditioning at this "top-notch" level.

As long as courses continue to get built primarily for the ego, they are bound by the current escalation and associated norms in keeping up with Joneses.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2004, 11:05:25 PM »
Interesting comments...

I never meant to suggest that the human element would be removed completely, obviously there will still be a few people around.  Who wants a robotic beverage girl, after all? ;)

I certainly agree that this wouldn't be for all clubs, just as some clubs still have caddies instead of carts, some will still have people driving the mowers.  Some clubs have enough money to continue to pay people unless/until we reach a point where technology can do so much that no manual labor jobs exist anymore.

I'm not sure GPS mowers would be accurate enough to maintain the type of control a good course would want.  Maybe with multiple source differential GPS, otherwise even a 1 yard error isn't going to work too well.

I have to say though, I think those who just automatically think the human element will never be removed aren't looking for enough ahead, or must think we'll reach some sort of limit in what we can do technologically.  Sure, when we reach the position where this is doable, it'll cost a lot more than having people do it.  But prices will drop, just as it is now several times less expensive to have robots do the welding, painting, etc. on automotive assembly lines than it is to pay people to do it.  There's still value for some people in "hand-made" automobiles like the Rolls Royce, but probably today there are more people who'd feel a better job will be done by the machine.  If not that day will arrive soon.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Effect of changes in maintenance cost?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2004, 01:30:18 AM »
I wonder if any advances in mowing technology (like faster reel speeds enabling faster ground speed) or wider yet manuverable multi-plex mowing decks, or what ever, will out pace the continued and increased restrictions of chemicals and their application methods that can be used to keep the turf disease&critter free, and nutritionally balanced.  

On one hand, one thinks they will come up with new TGRs and PGRs and such, and more endophites in seed cultivars, and all that stuff through biotechnology which will cost big money for the new products.  On the other, you see the water crisis on the horizon, and more land use restrictions and realize that it ain't going to get any cheaper to maintain golf courses.  the reduced cost robotic golf maintenance operation is a real plate of mushrooms... ::) :-X
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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