15 @ Celtic

[Sean_A]

Certainly for how it was set-up for the Cup this hole proved to be very weak because nobody even looked at the fairway.  All they looked at was the green and the lush rough on the bank as at least 50-50 for holding up a shot gone left.  They may as well moved the tee up and called it a monster par 3.  

Ciao  

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think the rough was grown in on that hole at the request of Monty / European Tour / Someone... So I was led to believe anyway... May just have been speculation but I doubt it...

[Phil Benedict]

Its pretty much been said already, but the thing that has really dissappointed me about this hole this week is that  no one has played the left hand / lay up route. Also (again as already said before) is that the water wasn't more in play, with players getting up and down from left of the green.

So is it a poor hole, or is it just badly set up for this week?

Play it off a tee further back, so not everyone can go for it. Make the slope left of the green fairway all the way down to the water hazard, just like the one in front of the 18th. And by those two simple adjustments its suddenly a decent risk / reward par 4, certainly not in the league of other great short par 4s in this world, but ideal for this event?

Cheers,




James

I find this to be an interesting comment.  Would the hole have been better is only a few guys (Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson) using driver would have the incentive to go for the green?  Why would this be so?

[James Boon]

Phil,

As it was, it basically played as a monster par 3, but if it was a touch longer then not everyone would have gone for it, but I'm sure most would have been tempted. I remember watching guys in the foursomes back at the Belfry, laying up on 10 only for their opponents to have a go at the green. Sometimes they made it, sometimes they didn't. But certainly more exciting than them all going for it?

The trick would be to get the length right so that it wasn't only say two players (likley Bubba and Dustin as you suggest) who would go for it, but tempting Fisher or Westwood or whoever, but possibly not Donald or Zach Johnson, to have a go. This would have brought some tactics into it, especially in the foursomes, with the longer hitters probably wanting to play the odd numbers because of this hole?

Cheers,

James

[Mark Pearce]

James,

Surely you are not suggesting that the only "strategic" decision a player should have to make on the hole is £do I hit the ball far enough to reach"?  The problem with your suggestion is that it ignores the real problem.  The fairway is too hard a target and the downside for missing the green not serious enough to force any real decision making process.

[James Boon]

Mark,

No I'm not suggesting the only decision should be can I hit it far enough, but surely the ability to hit it a long way has always been a factor in the design of driveable par 4s?

As for the real problems a, I've not played the course, haven't seen enough of the Wales Open, and no one in the Ryder Cup went down the left fairway, so I can't comment on that and b, you are right, as I've also suggested, the risk for missing the green wasn't serious enough.

It just felt strange that ever single player went for the green, thus making it more like a long par 3, and I would have though that was a combination of the length and the aparant lack of risk around the green?

Cheers,

James

[Mark Pearce]

James,

And the unattractiveness of the lay up alternative.  It's not a good driveable par 4 if a higher proportion of those going for the green and missing make birdie than those who lay up.  It would be interesting to see what the stats were from the Wales Open.