[Donnie Beck]

Is it possible to play truly links golf in America? I have begun to question the maintenance aspects of maintaining a links course in America. While it may be possible to mirror maintenance practices in a few select locations, I feel the difference in climates makes it nearly impossible for the majority of our country.  I feel the eastern end of Long Island, Cape Cod, and probably areas of the northwest offer the only sites were true links golf is possible.  I am familiar with growing grass on the eastern end on Long Island and even here in the summer season it is nearly impossible to maintain the same conditions as overseas. There are many years when we can get by just fine with little or no irrigation, but other years I feel the difference in temperature forces clubs in the United States to use more irrigation. I am not saying that an ideal maintenance meld can not be found, but will it ever match the conditions overseas?

[RJ_Daley]

I feel we get hung up too much on the term "links".  We have our climate and terrain, and GB&I have theirs.  We find sand barrens, sand dunes, alluvial sand washes, and ancient sea beds all over the world.  They just happen to be in a variety of climates.  WE all seem to know it when we see it.  But, the element of firm and fast ground on sand based soils of rumpled and rolling topography is what we seek in the underlying meaning.  When we start to define the true geomorphic processes that created the underlying terrain, we start to wander into the esoteric and loose sight of whether the course is maintained in a links manner to offer the game we come to know as "links" in character.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Since I have never been overseas to experience what DB is talking about but, after golfing Pacific Grove, I came away with the notion that preferred lies, on real linksland, is a crapshoot at best. So, if DB means to imply the conditioning is better, I have to question his premise. If Db means something entirely different, nevermind. I.m roseannadanna

[Robert Kimball]

IMHO, I think you can see a good links course on ESPN today from 4-6.  

[Donnie Beck]

Can you have the same firm and fast conditions in America as you do overseas??  The answer is definately YES...  Will you lose grass doing so in America Again the answer is YES. There is much more in maintaining firm and fast conditions in American than overseas. I am all for rock hard and brown. To me there is no better surface to play on. Many people talk firm and fast, but the majority aren't willing to lose grass to accomplish it. I think that is the reason you see so many overwater manicured courses in america.

[ForkaB]

Dick

I don't know about others, but I use the word "geomorphology" primarily because I like its sound and secondarily because I like to piss off my brother, who is a real geologist.

To both Hogan and me, all that counts is what's in the dirt, and from what I have seen, there is no dirt in the USofA which matches the dirt at the proper links of GBandI.  Not at Prairie or Pacific Dunes, not at Shinnecock or NGLA.  It may be serendipity rather than geomorphology, but to me, at least, it is a fact.  Not trying to make any value judgements--after all, all values are relative these days, aren't they?--but I haven't seen a proper links golf course in the US , yet, but I'm still hoping!

In any case, who cares?  Enjoy whatever golf you can get, wherever and however, and if you get to play any of the courses I have listed above, count yourself lucky, as do I.

[Big B]

Next August you will see the best links golf in the US during the PGA Championship.  If you get a chance, go to Whistling Straits and play the Straits Course.  The ground is firm (not hard), there are blind shots, cliffs, sand dunes and if the wind is blowing...  lookout!

[Tom_Doak]

Donnie,

I always hesitate to use the word "links" when talking about any American course, even Pacific Dunes.  But Ken Nice has the golf course playing firm and fast like a true links, and I'm losing hair a lot faster than he's losing grass.

[Big B]

Tom...

Historically, when is the best time of year to experience the best conditions at Bandon?  My friends and I are planning a golf trip there in the future.  I'm also looking forward to playing the new course at Stonewall.  Thanks.

[A.G._Crockett]

At the risk of sounding like a geography teacher (which I used to be) could the dearth of true "links" courses (as we seem to associate that term with "firm and fast" playing conditions), be primarily a function of the climate?  In the British Isles, the climate pattern is Marine West Coast, characterized by cool summers, mild winters, and ample rainfall spread throughout the year.

In the U.S., the dominant climate patterns are either Humid Subtropical, Warm Summer Continental, or Mediterranean, all characterized by much hotter summers, the first two by at least somewhat colder winters, and all three by less reliable rainfall in terms of distribution.  Given that, it may be impossible to achieve the level of "firm and fast" conditions that we all desire, even in a coastal area like Kiawah.  In fact, the only Marine West Coast climate area in the U.S. IS the Pacific NW, including Oregon.

[JohnV]

Big B,

The best time to go to Bandon is September.  The weather is usually perfect and the wind is a little less fierce than in July and August.  But, it is Oregon so you never know and should always bring some rain gear.

[RT]

A.G.,

Any reasonable discussion of what is a true links golf course would include your explanation, plus Rich and Dick's insights to the ever important soils aspects (and not just 12 inches, or 30.48cms, deep!).

Throw in specific turf types and this goes a long ways to getting to grips with this unique golf concept.

RT

[ian]

A.G._Crockett,

Nice answer, I wish you were my geography teacher

Donnie, I think you can get them (as you stated) but I don't think you can have them at all times. The East Coast has too many extremes, so there will be better times and trying times. The West coast is a little more moderate, and I think that opens up the chance to be more consistant.

I think players do tollerate dead grass as long as they know what you are trying to do and why it happened. I find a well educated (not by themselves of course) greens committee, who understands what the risks are in achieving hard and fast playing conditions, will tollerate  misfortune.

I look at some of the difficult times at a couple of high profile courses with poa greens. There was no finger pointing at the super, just quiet understanding that sometimes things are beyond control.

[Donnie Beck]

Tom,

There are many Great superintendents out there who do a wonderful job maintaining firm conditions. My point is I don’t think many can maintain the same conditions as overseas on a year round basis. I couldn’t agree more with A.G._Crockett and his descriptions of weather patterns. What made me think about this issue is how nicely many courses play in the fall season. I know personally that I haven’t turn on an irrigation head since right after aerification in early September. I am no meteorologist, but it made me start thinking our fall in the northeast must be very similar to the summer season overseas. Again there many be a few exceptions but I truly believe for the majority of the United States it is not possible to play true links golf on a year round basis.

[Tom_Doak]

Donnie,

I'd agree with you for about 99% of the golf courses in the USA, but not for Bandon, Oregon.  It hardly ever gets to 75 degrees F. on the site of the golf courses, it rains a lot in the winter, and it's droughty in the summer.  It's EXACTLY the same climate as the U.K. links -- Marine West Coast, as Mr. Crockett pointed out.

P.S.  This is approximately the same climate as the northern coast of Tasmania, though I think that's a little warmer.

[Paul_Daley]

The urge and marketing pay-off to proclaim any coastal course that plays 'firm and fast' as a links, is irrisistible. This happens in the States and it happens regularly Down Under, Australia.

I'm with Rich Goodale: the answer lies in the UK dirt, plus the way nature and its climatic determinants select naturally for the fine bents and fescues. Uncle Dick is also on the money. Man-made additions will take you so far, but until Man can control Nature, there must be some degree of compromise whenever the term 'links' is bandied about outside of the UK. Besides, there is nothing wrong in ascribing terms such as, US-style links, Australian-style links, and even South African-style links.  

Interestingly, heathland clubs often find it easier to recreate something approaching the UK links feel, than do many coastal courses around the globe hampered by the lush luxurient grass species: couch; kykuyu; and so forth.

In Australia alone, there are over 10,000 varieties of couch and many are found near the coast. Couch is both magnificent and awful: the ball sits up like a jack-rabbit making the usual audacious act of a driver-off-the deck, not so difficult at all. Try doing that successfully from a true links fairway and you'll attract the nickname, Christy O'connor - the Irish golfing legend famed for his ability to crack a driver from bare, impoverished links fairways.

Barnbougle Dunes along the North-Eastern coastline of Tasmania, is located far enough south to push the notion of links. The prospect is bloody tantalising, and this is one golf project that could come closest to the real deal.

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