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Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Renovation - Architect of record changed
« on: June 25, 2021, 01:42:08 PM »

When does a renovation require that the architect of record is the one who did the renovation? I believe this topic has been discussed before.


I raise this as Northeast Golf lists Owl’s Head in New Hampshire as one of the top 10 Jack Nicklaus value courses.


https://www.northeast.golf/golf-courses/owls-nest-resort-course-in-thornton-new-hampshire-jack-nicklaus-designed-course-ranked-6-in-design-by-value-worldwide/


While I have never played Owl’s Nest, this caught my attention. I always thought of it as a Mark Mungeam design. Indeed it is listed as such on his web site.


https://golfdesignconsultant.com/


Yet Nicklaus Design also listed as one of their designs.

https://www.nicklausdesign.com/2016/02/24/owls-nest-resort-to-be-nicklaus-designs-first-course-in-nh/


Perhaps in this case, the answer to the question is a matter of prestige. This first comment about Owl’s Nest sums it up well:


https://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/nh/campton/owl-s-nest-resort-golf-club


Noteworthy is that Golflink states it is a Mungeam design. Many other golf sites likewise give Mungeam credit and not Nicklaus for the design.


From my perspective to be credited as the designer the renovation needs to be very significant. Perhaps not to the point that the course would be unrecognizable but very significantly changed. Connecticut National comes to mind.  Ironically a Mungeam design.  He utilized the routing that was there but otherwise the course bears little resemblance to the original.

TPC Boston also comes to mind. Originally an Arnold Palmer design, with Gil Hanse doing a renovation. It is now listed as a Palmer and Hanse design although the website only talks about Hanse’s work on the course.


https://tpc.com/boston/architect/


As I recall Palmer did not want his name associated any longer with the course after it was renovated. Giving dual credit therefore makes sense.


So when is a renovation enough that the renovator gets credit for the design? It would seem that prestige is certainly a big element. When  a Tillinghast course, for example, is renovated you don’t see the name Tillinghast removed. At most, credit is given for the renovations but it is still considered a Tillinghast design.











« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 02:17:26 PM by Cliff Hamm »

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renovation - Architect of record changed
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2021, 02:26:07 PM »
“We are all very excited to have a first-class organization like Nicklaus Design leading us through these improvements at Owl’s Nest.”
[/size]“We look forward to the opportunity in the coming months to further our design work at Owl’s Nest and to start making a visual impact on this great layout,” said Jack Nicklaus II, President of Nicklaus Design.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]It seems that Nicklaus design firm is not taking credit for an original design.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]To answer your question I think there needs to be a significant change in routing before the old architect is erased. At The Full cry at Keswick Dye changed the routing and created new holes. It no longer is a Palmer design.[/color]
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
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Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renovation - Architect of record changed
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 02:44:14 PM »
The headline from the Nicklaus website:



Owl’s Nest Resort to become Nicklaus Design’s first course in New Hampshire


No, it does not say original design. But it is disingenuous at best. This also applies to the club.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Renovation - Architect of record changed
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2021, 06:45:44 PM »
Cliff:  I am not sure there is such a thing as an “official architect of record”.  Who would officiate?


I’ve had more than one call in recent years that amounted to, “how little work could we have you do to our course so we could call it yours?”  I’m just not into that.  But many architects can’t wait to attach their name to a good old course, so I think the bar for changing attribution should be set very high.

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renovation - Architect of record changed
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2021, 07:04:19 PM »
In my opinion it requires substantial changes to the routing and/or greens everything else is almost eye candy or presentation.


As an example, most courses where Tilly advised during his PGA tour of the USA falsely claim him as one of their architects when all he did was tour the course and share his thoughts.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

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