[Mark_Fine]

I am not sure I know what the difference is between the whole and the sum of the parts?  Also the definition of  “great” is a very subjective thing. 

A long time ago someone told me if every movie was two straight hours of a high intensity car chase or an opera started with a climax and stayed there throughout, they would all suck.  If you listen to Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony for example, it builds to a crescendo. Many great golf courses do the same and have multiple occurrences along the way.  I can’t think of any great golf course that starts with its best golf hole. 

That doesn’t mean all the holes can’t be special in some way.  Tom Doak defined a 10 as if you miss one hole you missed something worth seeing.  Not many courses fit that bill but if you look closely enough some do.  But that still doesn’t mean you would hang a lithograph of every individual hole from that course in your study or above your desk.  The greatest courses have 18 unique holes that all fit together and some individual holes will be much better than others.   

[Dean DiBerardino]

Agreed with Pinehurst No. 2 for this description. The Country Club at Pepper Pike has the same feel IMO.

[Mike Hendren]

Ballyneal.  While there are a few standout holes, I felt continuity of play from the first tee through the eighteenth green, only interrupted by stopping to lift the ball out of the hole on occasion.   Typically I can vividly remember each hole of a stellar course, but Ballyneal is unusual in that I cannot begin to identify/recall individuals holes (excepting the E green of course) as they blend together seamlessly.   


Bogey

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Bogey: I knew it!! Or at least, I *suspected* it. I only "know" anything about great golf courses from reading about them here -- but I've long been predicting that within my lifetime Ballyneal will reach #1 on some major ranking list -- as panelists finally get sophisticated enough to really 'see it' (as well as I do, having *never* seen it ha ha!)

[Kalen Braley]

Ballyneal.  While there are a few standout holes, I felt continuity of play from the first tee through the eighteenth green, only interrupted by stopping to lift the ball out of the hole on occasion.   Typically I can vividly remember each hole of a stellar course, but Ballyneal is unusual in that I cannot begin to identify/recall individuals holes (excepting the E green of course) as they blend together seamlessly.   

Bogey

Bogey,

I certainly agree overall that Ballyneal has terrific flow,  but I thought there was quite a bit of diversity from hole to hole.  Even 10+ years later since my visit, I can still distinctly recall every hole.  Holes like 7, the green on 8, the 13th, 15th and 16th are such distinct holes I don't know if I've seen anything else like them. (I should qualify I haven't been to the UK)

[Troy Miller]

This concept has always been a the forefront of my thinking and philosophy and the list that's been rattled off to fit the mold just reinforced that for me. 


In its most basic, worst, examples it can boil down to the routing that moves heaven, and a lot of earth, to get to one or more signature holes without thinking about the impact on the overall. 

I also think it has a lot to do with the rhythm of the course and how multiple holes created in succession effect one another, or the way they are rated. I wonder if 18 at Pebble would be AS highly ranked (by some) if it was the 6th hole. or the first hole?  Would No. 8 be ranked EVEN higher (by some) if it was 18? 


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[Charles Lund]

snip

"

St Enodoc may fit this bill for me. It does have a few All England candidates and a few unusual holes. But to me how the course touches different features of the property is just as important. The routing visually touches base with Daymer Bay merging into Camel Estuary, Padstow Bay and eventually the Atlantic on several occasions...never allowing golfers to forget they are in Cornwall. The use of the adjacent farm for three holes which adds a completely different element to the round. The farm track, Himalaya Dune, Brea Hill, creek & church. Its seems as though these are stations to be visited on the journey of 18 holes." 

I thought of St. Enodoc when I first saw the thread about the whole and sum of the parts.  I elected to get a five day ticket there as part of a two week trip and had no regrets.  After my first round I was able to reconstruct from memory all 18 holes in the order I played them. That probably defines memorability for me and the diversity enhanced memorability.  I never encountered a case of the druthers about the five day ticket and looked forward to each round there.


I had a similar experience with Prairie Dunes with being able to remember all holes after my first trip around the course.


Charles Lund 

[Philippe Binette]

Royal lytham and st.annes: no holes stands above the rest... but the game is to survive the 18 holes
Same for oakmont

[Tal Oz]

Soule Park springs to mind immediately here. I played it for the first time last summer and remember the hour and a half drive back to LA was just me raving about how much fun that course was. It comes up woefully short on a head to head against Rustic Canyon for me, which lends credence to the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Soule Park might be the best example of a course that's made way better by phenomenal greens. At least one that I've ever played.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, gents. Let's see:

Muirfield
Prairie Dunes
Royal Lytham
Pinehurst #2
Alwoodley
Soule Park
St. Enodoc
Bandon Trails
St. George's Hill
Foxburg
Cavendish
Ballyneal
Brora
Harbor Town
Brancaster
Pebble Beach
Cruden Bay
The Country Club at Pepper Pike
Portmarnock
Oakmont

That seems one heck of a Top 20 - 10 on this side of the pond, 10 on that side.

As I say, I only 'know' these courses from readings and photos, but for me there do seem to be lovely and subtle 'commonalities' (re: 'the whole') that otherwise disparate courses share, eg Ballyneal and Prairie Dunes, Muirfield and Cavendish etc

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