[Ran Morrissett]

...is now posted under In My Opinion and Architecture Timeline.

For whatever reason, I am reminded of Oakland Hills - great topo, wild greens with both clubs fostering a parkland environment ever since each of the original architects passed away.  The original rolling, treeless topo at both Oakland Hills and Southern Hills must have been a DREAM to Ross and Maxwell respectively.

Given that the wind occasionally blows in Oklahoma  , is it a stretch to think that Southern Hills and Shinnecock Hills would have played somewhat alike 65 years ago? Just look at the view from today's 16th tee - is this what Maxwell would want?

Chris calls it as he sees it: the pros are that Maxwell's design work is largely in tact and the topography is nearly ideal. The downside are the trees.

See what you think. There is no doubt this once was one of the GREATS in the country; I'm less sure of that today but hope to get there one day myself.

Cheers,

[Jeff_Lewis]

Great piece Chris. Thanks for the good work.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Enjoyed it, Chris. Thanks.

You mentioned Perry and Press Maxwell, and Dean Woods slept in tents on-site throughout the course construction, then asked who would do this today?

Rod Whitman  

[CHrisB]

Chris,
How similar are today's greens to Maxwell's originals? Are the original rolls intact or have they been flattened/softened to accommodate the high green speeds of the U.S. Open setup?

[Chris_Clouser]

As it mentions in the text, greens 7 & 17 have been touched.  But aside from that there has been little to alter the greens since the original Maxwell work on the course.  Keith Foster and his crew had to do some work due to the vandalism in 1999 but from what the club told me, they retained the contouring.  Floyd Farley came in and touched the 8th and 6th greens and expanded them slightly, but the contours remained the same.  I believe they both have been returned to the original sizes.  I have read that other people came in and rebuilt the greens, but they used certain techniques to retain as much of the contouring as possible.  Maxwell didn't really do detailed plans like a Flynn or Ross, so it is hard to determine how much is still there, but many of the greens still have the same style of contouring as Prairie Dunes, Crystal Downs, Old Town and other Maxwell greens that remain today.  I've also got some old photos of some of the greens that show the contouring being almost identical to today's course.  I actually have a great photo of the 13th from behind and to the left that shows the large roll in the front half of the green.  That roll is just as noticable to this day.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Chris,

How does the new Coore/Crenshaw 9 at Southern Hills compare to the original? Having not visited SH yet, I understand C/C did a very good job creating a new 9 holes that look and feel as though they were constructed during Maxwell's time.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[T_MacWood]

Chris
Excellent article. Do you think the current bunkering style is reflective of Maxwell -- has it changed much over the years?

Regarding the 12th, I don't know if Maxwell had been exposed to the 13th at ANGC (although I do believe it was featured in magazines at around that time), but I do know Wendell Miller would have been since he was in charge of the construction of ANGC.

[Chris_Clouser]

Jeff,

I did walk the other nine just to get a feel for it.  The other nine contains some very nice holes that have a "softer" feel to them.  I do think they are probably a little more reflective of what the big course would have looked like in the 1950s.  The bunkering though reminds me more of some of the old Austin Country Club stuff than what Maxwell was doing earlier in his career.  Which makes sense, because that is where Crenshaw grew up playing.  

Tom,

I would say the bunkering is different.  First off the bunkers are deeper with sand faces.  The original bunkers were somewhat flatter on the bottom with steep grass faces.  I think the bunkering at Southern Hills was much more like that at the National from photos I've seen of them both.  I've got a couple of good photos that show the early bunkering and it is really quite different.  Strategically most of the bunkers are where Maxwell put them.  I think I found 4 or 5 that have been moved or eliminated, not bad considering how many people have slightly tinkered with the course.  But style wise they are different.  Which is kind of funny because the current style is labeled the Maxwell style by a lot of people and is used quite consistently at other Tulsa area courses like the Oaks and even reaches all the way over to Oklahoma City with the OKCGCC using the same style.  Even though early photos of that course clearly show that Maxwell didn't use that style at all.  

Oh, I almost forgot.  On the 12th, the original design of the hole was to have the green placed at the location of the current 13th back tee.  This would have been an elevated green site right and above the creek that currently fronts the green.  It was one of the final changes that Maxwell made to the course before it opened to move the green to the other side of the creek.  One of the members, Don Bothwell was walking with him and they were hitting balls.  Bothwell couldn't get any shots to go up to the elevated green and actually hooked a shot that went to the current green site and he and Maxwell decided to move the green to that location.  So I'm pretty confident the 13th at Augusta was not in their minds at the time of the design.  I think that alternate green site may have been even tougher than the final one as the player would have needed to hit a fade from a draw lie into that elevated green.  And anyone that didn't would have been repelled and rolled into the creek below.  

[Dunlop_White]

Chris,

Thanks for your contribution. We have not had alot of action in the "In My Opinion" section of GCA recently. I really enjoyed the read.

I remembered alot of trees at SH during coverage of the U.S. Open, and yes there are still a few around. Way too many; however, I must say that they exercise a great degree of tree care as all the trees appear to be specimen type hardwoods. Their canopies have been lifted nicely, and much of the understory saplings, which clutter many courses today, have been removed, exposing the majestic larger ones. Although its still thick, recovery play appears to have been enhanced. Plus, it looks good and clean.

Tom,

The images of the current SH bunkers are not indicative of the original Maxwell bunkers at Old Town. These are much cleaner, less weathered with native fescues and broomsedge. Plus, they appear to be more symetrical today as opposed to the charismatic, intricate shapes that the original bunkers had at Old Town as shown in the article which you produced for me last year.

[TEPaul]

I've no doubt at all that Southern Hills is a great, great golf course and Perry Maxwell is surely one of my all time favorites. But I just read and took a very careful look at Chris's "In My Opinion" piece on Southern Hills and I have to say Pat Mucci might be 98% correct when it comes to the usefulness of photographs to analyze a golf course. That golf course in those photos needs one helluva lot of help on overtreeing and some of those bunkers need a good deal of something! I've never seen Maxwell bunkers that look like some out there--was it #6--the par 3? Those ones are nothing more than finely edged generic little round dishes!

[Dunlop_White]

Tom Paul,

Obviously, those in charge at SH are aware of their trees. As I said before, it appears that they exericise a great degree of tree care as the canopies of each and every hardwood has been lifted nicely. Also, understory saplings and evergreens have been eliminated entirely, it seems. Its not that they don't know that they are overtreed like so many courses today. Special attention has been given to each and every one of these specimens. Though clean and pretty, its too bad because, many angles have been eliminated, site lines are obstructed, and it appears almost as suffocating as Oak Hill.

As for the bunkers, I read a report one time where an architect was planning to redo some old Maxwell bunkers and he used the SH bunkers as a template/model to go by. He described Maxwell bunkers as "saucers", just as you described the SH bunkers as "little round dishes". Too bad the architect used Southern Hills as an example and too bad he ended his due diligence research there.

I believe Tom Doak described Maxwell bunkers as "charismatic", a design facet that he picked up from MacKenzie during their collaborative years. Old images of the original photos at Old Town reveal the charisma, personality, and charm that Doak described.

Dunlop

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