“How dare you”

[PCCraig]

This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂

Exactly, it looks like every other "minimalist" bunker being built today?


Perhaps its just my untrained eye, though.

[Ian Andrew]

The rest of the work there seems well done from pics ( I haven’t been there in 13 years). 

I listed the second green as one of the best 18 greens I had ever seen on my old blog about golf architecture. The fan shaped contouring in the back was absolutely sublime. That green was rebuilt a number of years back.


Bunkers can be fixed, although the 12th will be harder to do with so much change.
Greens are much harder to fix unless you have scanned them before.


It keeps getting cleaner and simpler ...
It blew my mind for how raw and seemingly random it all was.
 

[Sean Leary]

The rest of the work there seems well done from pics ( I haven’t been there in 13 years). 

I listed the second green as one of the best 18 greens I had ever seen on my old blog about golf architecture. The fan shaped contouring in the back was absolutely sublime. That green was rebuilt a number of years back.


Bunkers can be fixed, although the 12th will be harder to do with so much change.
Greens are much harder to fix unless you have scanned them before.


It keeps getting cleaner and simpler ...
It blew my mind for how raw and seemingly random it all was.

I am generally not a fan of “busy” greens but that one was an exception.  Unbelievable. Haven’t been back since it was redone, presumably in response to green speeds. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂

Exactly, it looks like every other "minimalist" bunker being built today?


Perhaps its just my untrained eye, though.

Do you think, Pat?

I think it looks very contrived and way too busy. It looks like it has been designed and built rather than sitting in naturally.

But that might be unfair from two photos. Would like to see a golden age photo and also a before and after.

[Sean Leary]

This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂

Exactly, it looks like every other "minimalist" bunker being built today?


Perhaps its just my untrained eye, though.

Do you think, Pat?

I think it looks very contrived and way too busy. It looks like it has been designed and built rather than sitting in naturally.

But that might be unfair from two photos. Would like to see a golden age photo and also a before and after.

I have found that often times modern frilly edged bunkers look like what you describe when they are first completed, then tend to evolve into more natural looking over time.  First time I noticed this was at Bandon Trails right when it opened.  When I went back years later they looked much more natural. Again, just my opinion.

[Ally Mcintosh]

This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂

Exactly, it looks like every other "minimalist" bunker being built today?


Perhaps its just my untrained eye, though.

Do you think, Pat?

I think it looks very contrived and way too busy. It looks like it has been designed and built rather than sitting in naturally.

But that might be unfair from two photos. Would like to see a golden age photo and also a before and after.

I have found that often times modern frilly edged bunkers look like what you describe when they are first completed, then tend to evolve into more natural looking over time.  First time I noticed this was at Bandon Trails right when it opened.  When I went back years later they looked much more natural. Again, just my opinion.

I think you are right to a certain extent because nature takes its course and eradicates the obvious manmade elements. But generally speaking, the more overdesigned a bunker complex is, the less it looks like it fits seamlessly right through its lifespan.

[Niall C]

Ally

I agree, the frilly aspect will become weathered over time but the overall bund effect is likely to stay unless it gets broken up or camouflaged by planting of some sort.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂

Exactly, it looks like every other "minimalist" bunker being built today?

Well, that's exactly the problem.  Pine Valley isn't supposed to look like Mammoth Dunes or WorldWoods.


All of the original bunkers on that hole were still there just hidden under the trees.  It would have taken painstaking work to clear all the trees and stumps away while preserving those contours, but one would assume a place like Pine Valley could afford that if that's what their designer recommended.


Unfortunately, they decided that would be a waste of time and it would be easier just to nuke the whole area and reshape it.  And they actually believe their work is BETTER than the original work.




While I'm on topic, no, not all modeen bunkers look alike.  The bunker style at Pacific Dunes is different than Ballyneal or The Loop, although they tend to evolve in the same direction over time thanks to wind and weather and the superintendent's eye.  And when we have done renovations at SFGC or Camargo or The Valley Club or whatever, we did NOT build the same bunkers we would on a new course - we built them as close as we could to the original pictures.  The similarity exists because our new bunkers were inspired by the old work we have all seen in photos.

[Ted Sturges]

This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂

Exactly, it looks like every other "minimalist" bunker being built today?


Perhaps its just my untrained eye, though.

Pat, the problem is, it doesn't look like anything else on the PV property.  Hard to imagine something like this would get past the Club leadership there.  Agree with the poster above that it will be "fixed/restored" soon.  I will set the over/under at 5 years...and I'll take the under.


TS

[Kalen Braley]

There has to be some more "how dare you" stuff out there...


Does MacK get one for the trees on 17 at CPC? 

[Tom_Doak]

There has to be some more "how dare you" stuff out there...


Does MacK get one for the trees on 17 at CPC? 

You were probably not prohibited from taking down a Monterey cypress in 1927 but that doesn't mean you should have.  Plus, there was more land to the right of them, and the trees were much smaller.


When I was in college, Frank Hannigan put me in touch with Lewis Lapham, who had played college golf at Yale in the '20s, and who hit drives for MacKenzie (!) to test out possible tee locations on various holes.  He said he tried out many different positions for 17 tee in particular.

[Kyle Harris]

Well, that's exactly the problem.  Pine Valley isn't supposed to look like Mammoth Dunes or WorldWoods.

But World Woods was supposed to look like Pine Valley.


There are, after all, two ways to go about that!


 

[OChatriot]

That's a damn shame.  It's what makes classic courses unique.  You can actually see the fairway work on Google maps.  What was the nature of the humps before?  Perhaps Clayton, Devries and Post can restore that feature.


There was a a 3-foot high roundish bump smack in the middle about where your drive ens up. About 20-30 feet wide. It could provide for a few awkward stances and lies that made the 9 ish iron shot a tad more challenging.
Razed around 2012 I think. Maybe it irked the owners?
Great news about Clayton, Devries and Pont appointment. I had missed that.