[Thomas Dai]

At least this maintenance practice prevents the dreaded lie of one's ball resting on the fringe against a three-inch wall of rough.

See - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiPs30tHVY8
atb

[James Bennett]

What is the role of a bunker in golf course architecture with 6 different levels of cut?Is it aesthetics, or something more?

[Kalen Braley]

After all the tough talk by Rory, Brooks, Tiger, etc those guys must be pissed for yet another USGA failure in failing to deliver a difficult challenge.

This year is the 2nd lowest Cut in the US Open at +3... going back 25 years to 1994.  (+2 is lowest two years ago at EH).
Last two times at Pebble in 2010 and 2000 the cut line was +8.

[Mike_Trenham]

This is just the green staff showing off to their peers.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I thinks its refreshing to see the USOpen get back to it's "roots." There have been some misfires over the years and to this point, other than general praise about conditioning, there hasn't been a focus on the conditions of the golf course. In 2015, the fescue/poa greens caused issues all week long. 2017-the USGA was mowing back rough lines early in the week. 2018 was all the talk about what happened in 2004 and how they had data and science to ensure it wouldn't happen again....yet it did. I cant remember, but I think that there was something in the 2014 USOpen, too. Obviously, we all know that the 2013 at Merion drastically altered the golf course, yet it held it's own to par, though considered short.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I thinks its refreshing to see the USOpen get back to it's "roots." There have been some misfires over the years and to this point, other than general praise about conditioning, there hasn't been a focus on the conditions of the golf course. In 2015, the fescue/poa greens caused issues all week long. 2017-the USGA was mowing back rough lines early in the week. 2018 was all the talk about what happened in 2004 and how they had data and science to ensure it wouldn't happen again....yet it did. I cant remember, but I think that there was something in the 2014 USOpen, too. Obviously, we all know that the 2013 at Merion drastically altered the golf course, yet it held it's own to par, though considered short.

Tony... Not quite sure what you mean by "its roots". I've heard that line a few times this week. When was the real graduated rough first a thing? Winged Foot in O6? It for sure was a creation in the last 2 decades and that doesn't quite qualify as US OPEN Roots to me... Have you seen the photos of Bobby Jones' US Open at Merion? Def no graduated rough, and I'm 99% sure none of the drastic alterations are gonna be there the next time the US Open is there either.


Agree/Disagree, about the dizzying step-cuts and all the different HOC's going this week, doesn't really matter. If you have 100+ head/assistant supers that volunteer to do everything from mow rough to move turning boards you can do anything you want that week. BUT The big thing I think is important to remember is that this is NOT the example most golf courses around the country should follow. We all talk about the Augusta National Syndrome, well lets just make sure that we do not have a US OPEN Syndrome either, and explain that this graduated rough with 5+ HOCs and everything else that goes along with it is OK this week, but not at your home course. I wish the governing body did a bit more to explain that to the masses.

[Anthony_Nysse]

  Of courses its not an example. Just like Augusta isn't. It's set up for one week. BUT, regardless of the 100 volunteers for week, this was done BEFORE the volunteers came. Having the volunteers just means you can do things in a much shorter time period.

  There isn't any graduated rough this week. It's green, fairway, intermediate cut, rough and an unmaintained, fescue bunker edge. The back to "its roots," comments refers to thick, knarly rough, tight up to the green.  Hit the green and there isn't problem. Id imagine Winged Foot will be set up similar. Up until 2014, they had had over 30+ years with rough like this. Not every golf course has or needs to be shortcut everywhere.
  This wasn't the set up for the AT&T 5 months ago nor will it look like this in 3 months when the Champions Tour is there.

[Alex Miller]

This thread is peak GCA hivemind.




Does Pebble use 5 cuts for normal (I say normal but it's a $500 round of golf over 5.5 hours) play? No. Wouldn't we be commenting on the lack of variety and recovery options available if there was long rough immediately surrounding these greens? Probably.


This is a set up for the U.S. Open - a tournament which seeks to identify the best golfer. So if a shot is more off line I have no problem with it being punished more than a good shot. And with the greens at PB being smaller than most having balls which are just off the green given a chance for recovery as opposed to half foot U.S. Open rough makes sense to me.


Yes the USGA often sets a tone and standard which other clubs aspire too, and this is not something that can be maintained everywhere, but can't we hold others accountable besides the USGA? They're doing what they feel they need to do and I think have done a good job setting up this tournament. If some greenskeeper or local club decides to follow suit and throw $$$ away isn't that on them?




Oh and yes I'd love to see a more natural looking Pebble - I love seeing these old photos posted which show a truly stunning and natural looking course. But the multiple cuts is way wayyyy down on the list of changes that need to happen for Pebble to showcase itself as a natural wonder, and it's doing a fine job of being the U.S. Open sweetheart it is every 8-10 years right now. 

[Adam Clayman]

Martin, I believe two of those layers you're seeing could be clean up passes, going opposite directions, on the green's perimeter.


The grasses presented like this, does provide for at least one core principle, randomness, for both the lie of the ball and  the action, on impact.

[Mike Bodo]

It may not be six cuts, but it is five cuts within what looks like a couple of clublengths of the green. Which is obviously absurd.

I don't know who gave the green light to the mowing lines and heights around the green, but were your ball to end up say in cut no. 4 given the amount of green you have to work with, you're virtually forced to land your chip shot on the green and hope it comes to rest within three feet of the cup. It may not feed down there otherwise were it to land in cut no. 2 after being struck.

[Jon Wiggett]

There would appear to be only one length of grass in this now colourised old photo of PB. The difference in light/darkness of colour being the direction of travel of the up/down mowing pattern in use.
Thoughts?
atb

What would the fairway height have been back then? I really have no idea.

Steve,


I would imagine somewhere around the 3/4" (18mm).

[Jon Wiggett]

It may not be six cuts, but it is five cuts within what looks like a couple of clublengths of the green. Which is obviously absurd.

It looks like the fairway cut is missing in this photo so Marty might well be correct with six different heights.

[Kalen Braley]

Jon,


Pretty sure #2 is the fairway cut.  In watching on TV that first collar blends right into the fairway side openings...

[Mike_Trenham]

Martin, I believe two of those layers you're seeing could be clean up passes, going opposite directions, on the green's perimeter.

I agree now it see it, my question is does this allow them to not turn the mowers in the rough?

[Mark Chaplin]

No they will use turning boards. It’s impossible to get every cut perfectly to the inch on the edge of the green the tidy up cut ensures you do and give a uniform look.


As a hobby greenkeeper I’ve realised golfers don’t notice most of our imperfections!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()