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Peter Pallotta

Honesty in Design
« on: November 21, 2018, 09:27:33 AM »
Do you think a golf course can be 'honestly' or 'dishonestly' designed?
Can you apply those terms to an architect's intentions/approach, if not to the course itself?
If so, do any golf courses jump out at you as being particularly honest/dishonest?
Peter

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Honesty in Design
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 09:58:03 AM »
Pietro

I am not wholly sure I understand the question, but I will take a stab. 

Yes, I do think there is the possibility of dishonest design with the use of mega tees.  It just seems to me this is an easy crutch not to bother with creating a course which satisfies most...yet remains a comfortable walk. I think designers and developers are giving into cart design (ie dishonest design), which is essentially what mega tees creates, far too easily all while not capitalizing on the health aspects of walking as a marketing tool.   

A second example of dishonest design is the over-use of bunkers.  This has been talked about in recent years, but I am not convinced the issue has been properly tackled.  I still see sand used where another feature may serve the purpsoe just as well.  I still see bunker jobs where the money would be better spent clearing trees to aid agronomy or upgrading the drainage.  I am wondering when superficial aspects of design will be skipped over for crucial "infrastructure".

Finally, I still see too much focus on yardage over angles and f&f maintenance.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Honesty in Design
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 10:16:07 AM »
Interesting notion, Pietro.


I guess the answer comes down to who is lying to who. The most obvious dishonesty would be between the designer and the owner/client, where a designer says one thing and does another - but it seems to me that this isn't what you're talking about. Seems like perhaps you're referring more to an intellectual dishonesty, and I'm not sure I can identify examples of that in golf course design, mainly because I don't know enough!


Let's say someone is designing a course in an area where flooding might occur on occasion, and the design doesn't take this into account, and leaves the owner on the hook for future damage that should have been anticipated. Or what if an initial routing results in the creation of two terrible holes, and the designer decides that is a necessary evil without ever seeking out other opinions on how the puzzle might be solved. These are the kinds of things that come to mind for me.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Honesty in Design
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 10:26:56 AM »
Peter,


The only definition that comes to mind is where an architect somehow is not "true" to his or her principles because the owner/developer wants a design that is contrary to those principles.  A bit like art critics accusing an artist of "selling out" in order to pursue commercial success.  I have no problem with an architect or artist being "dishonest" in this sense.  They are people who have a right to make a living even if we do not like it.  And I am a Democrat.


Ira

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Honesty in Design
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 11:53:23 AM »

I know of a designer who thought in terms of  "sincere" design, which might be similar.  In essence, it involved  creating a unique sense of place, and following the "form follows function" methodology rather than apply a pre-set philosophy.  In golf, I suppose using imitation holes, or even previously designed holes or features in multiple settings would qualify as insincere.


As would waterfalls in the desert, although I can see a designer being giving that as a design brief, and then their design might be a sincere attempt to create a form to implement a certain function.  We might questions the developers motive, but then, hey, tumbleweed never sold too many houses in the arid SW, did it?  Some landscape architects have always touted regionality, as did FLW in architecture, which do seem a bit more sincere.  Heck, under the above scenario, maybe even minimalism would be considered "insincere" in some cases, but I could see the argument either way.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Peter Pallotta

Re: Honesty in Design New
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 04:56:37 PM »

Thanks, gents. You all touched on various (valid, it seems to me) interpretations.
Here's one more: how about a landform that is potentially wonderful for golf, and that even 'tells' the architect how it can be used -- eg a quite starkly uphill and canting stretch of grassland roughly framed by trees and turning gently right to left -- but that the architect *doesn't* use for reasons not strictly related to creating the best possible golf hole.
Is there some kind of 'insincerity' at work there?
Peter 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 05:35:46 PM by Peter Pallotta »

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