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Michael Taylor

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2010, 03:27:43 AM »
What a beautiful place.

Anyway, what is so good about the 4th hole? It looks nice but I can't see what's great about it. Care to enlighten me someone?  :)

Pup

jonathan_becker

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2010, 09:41:07 AM »
Jim,

An outstanding photo from #9 tee.

I would assume that the predominant wind blows from the left on #9 (correct?  I haven't been to RCD....YET).  From seeing other photos of this hole in the past, ideally it looks as though you need to keep it on the left side of the fw to get the better angle into the green.  Plus, the fw doesn't look anymore than 30 yards wide. 

Combining all of these elements on one hole seems to make for a great challenge.  I love it!!

Jim Tang

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2010, 09:55:43 AM »
Shane -

I tried to get Jim Colton and my brother to go with me, but family and career obligations got in the way and neither could make it.  At the time, I had just gone through a divorce and suddenly I found myself with a lot of free time.  It seemed the only sensible thing to do was to take a golf trip to Ireland/N.I.

Jonathan -

Yes, to get the best look and angle into the green at # 9, you've got to keep the ball more on the left side of the hole.  #9 is one tough golf hole.

I will have a few more pictures to post later this morning.

JESII

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2010, 10:01:28 AM »
What a beautiful place.

Anyway, what is so good about the 4th hole? It looks nice but I can't see what's great about it. Care to enlighten me someone?  :)

Pup


Pup,

I'll be curious if anyone can elaborate in detail because there's nothing really out-of-the box on #4 other than the setting. The tee is set into a dune and you hit down into the flat while surrounded by dunes and the mountain as a backdrop. Has to be as beutiful a hole as there is, and holds up well functionally.

Jamie Barber

Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2010, 10:04:03 AM »
I've only played RCD once but thought it was fabulous and the setting spectacular. Thanks for the photos.

Jim Tang

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2010, 11:11:15 AM »
Here are a few more pictures from the same day...



The first shot of the day.



The par 4 8th fairway.



Looking back on the front nine from the 9th tee box.



View from the top of the dune at par 4 9th.



The par 3 10th



The rolling fairway of the par 4 15th

Matthew Hunt

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2010, 05:06:33 PM »
I still think the 4th is one of the best par 3's I've ever played.

Agreed. And 7 might be better.

I think it is.

Bill Brightly

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2010, 10:52:52 PM »
Thanks for posting. I love RCD! Beyond beng a great links course, I got the feeling that the colors were added by a wold class artist.

When I played it I was a single, just me and my caddy. The field was very nice and waved me through, so I finished in 2:15...I was never so disappointed that the round was over fast, I did not want to putt out on 18!

Rob Rigg

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2010, 03:25:02 AM »
"Ya down with RCD?"

Great pictures Jim - Thanks!

Hope to get there one day - no excuse not to - brilliant stuff.

David Davis

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2018, 05:56:22 PM »
Thought I would bump this nice old thread. Last weekend I was fortunate enough to play several rounds there. It had been a long time since I played and it was great to get back and rediscover how amazing it is after seeing several hundreds of other courses in the mean time.


The last time I was there it was March, the course is amazingly different as one would expect in September. Firm, fast and quite the challenge.


The biggest take away from the several rounds this last weekend is how much better the 16-18th holes were than I remember them. To be fair I think they have been changed. I'd kind of like to see 16 play as a true drivable par 4 but what are you gonna say. It's an excellent hole as is. 17 as well is controversial and gets quite a bit of negative comments but I think the hole is strategically excellent. How can you rip a hole because of a natural spring in it? The location of the water is just so that you have to think about your tee shot yet ideally you get as close to it as you can in order to have a short iron into this wonerful green. 18 on the other hand is a cracker of a strong finishing hole.


I'm struggling to see a single weakness on this course, I'm surprised it's not discussed more on GCA as it no doubt warrants as much discussion for the greens and surrounds as any course in the world.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2018, 09:02:45 PM »


The biggest take away from the several rounds this last weekend is how much better the 16-18th holes were than I remember them. To be fair I think they have been changed. I'd kind of like to see 16 play as a true drivable par 4 but what are you gonna say. It's an excellent hole as is. 17 as well is controversial and gets quite a bit of negative comments but I think the hole is strategically excellent. How can you rip a hole because of a natural spring in it? The location of the water is just so that you have to think about your tee shot yet ideally you get as close to it as you can in order to have a short iron into this wonerful green. 18 on the other hand is a cracker of a strong finishing hole.


I'm struggling to see a single weakness on this course, I'm surprised it's not discussed more on GCA as it no doubt warrants as much discussion for the greens and surrounds as any course in the world.


I love County Down.  The look of Pacific Dunes borrows a lot from there.


But I have to disagree that it has no weaknesses.  They are:


1.  The front nine is so much better than the back nine, and that is anathema to most people's idea of how it should go.


2.  There are lots of blind holes ... I'm okay with them, but lots of people aren't.  And,


3.  The finishing holes still aren't good.  I think I liked the old 16th more than the new one, which tries too hard to enforce "shot values".  And the 18th is now littered with bunkers, which can't distract from the fact that it is a boring, play-straight-down-the-fairway type of hole.


I had it as a 9 when I first did my ratings, and though two of my co-authors think it's a 10, I can't concur.

JESII

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2018, 09:31:55 PM »
Tom, surely I’m misreading that post to see your points 1 and 2 as marks against the course because of what others may think...

Tom_Doak

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2018, 09:47:21 PM »
Tom, surely I’m misreading that post to see your points 1 and 2 as marks against the course because of what others may think...


Jim:


David said he was "struggling to see a single weakness in the course".  Most people would mark one or both of those things as weaknesses, and I am skeptical that David can't imagine that.


I see them as weaknesses, too, but not in the knee-jerk way that some would. 


On the first point, if the front is really that much better than the back, it says to me that the back can't be that great ... mostly because of what I outline in #3.  But, for that matter, the 11th and 12th holes aren't holes I would sub out for any holes at Barnbougle.


On the second point, I don't mind blind tee shots, but Royal County Down has a lot of SIMILAR blind tee shots over a post ... five in all.  From a variety standpoint, that's not great; and also it's hard to build strategy into a par-4 if you can't see any potential fairway hazards.  Indeed, Royal County Down is loved most by very good players because it rewards long and straight hitting, more than because it's a strategic marvel.

Mark_F

Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2018, 10:11:27 PM »
But I have to disagree that it has no weaknesses.  They are:

3.  The finishing holes still aren't good.  I think I liked the old 16th more than the new one, which tries too hard to enforce "shot values".  And the 18th is now littered with bunkers, which can't distract from the fact that it is a boring, play-straight-down-the-fairway type of hole.


The only weakness of RCD is that it is so expensive to play.


16 is quite a good hole let down by some horrible bunkers.  They're both too deep and too circular in shape compared to the others.
 
I can't see how 18 is boring at all.  The hole bends enough, and just at the right point, that, if you aren't in the perfect position along the right, you are either going to have to hit a blind to semi-blind, perfectly shaped draw to end up with a short approach, or you have a semi-blind to blind lay up and leave yourself with a much longer shot into a smallish, very quick green.


17, on the other hand, is a poor hole no matter the excellence of the green.

It's interesting, Tom that you give RCD a 9, presumably because of the weakness of the last three holes, yet RMW is a 10.  Any of 1,8,14 and 15 at RMW are worse than the last three holes at RCD, and those bunkers in the crook of 11 West are far worse than any bunker on 16 at RCD.

And RMW sure as hell isn't on the same ground as RCD...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 10:20:19 PM by Mark Ferguson »

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2018, 02:23:16 AM »
I played with a top amateur member of my own club yesterday who dislikes RCD quite a lot. In fact, I’d estimate that 50% of the members I play with feel the same way.


Of course, the courses are chalk and cheese... and I disagree... but it is not merely the blind shots that seem to upset them. I think it is the random outcome when two people hit the same tee shot that they believe to be perfect on a blind hole.


Now before ye all shout me down about golf’s not meant to be fair, I completely agree. But there’s a fine line between not being fair and unfair randomness. These people seem to think RCD has a few shots that fall in to the latter category.


Either way, I find it interesting how the Irish rank / view their own courses compared to the outside world. It is generally different.


For what it’s worth, I have RCD in my top 5 in Ireland and for certain aspects my No.1
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 03:49:07 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Mike Sweeney

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2018, 06:33:11 AM »

Either way, I find it interesting how the Irish rank / view their own courses compared to the outside world. It is generally different.





Ally,

I hear that about Yale all the time....blind shots. When I get a bad bounce on Yale 18, I revert to my German heritage. When I get a good bounce on Yale 18, it is clearly due to my golfing skills.

Sláinte
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Thomas Dai

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2018, 06:48:03 AM »
There are two 18-hole courses at RCD-GC.
One is very expensive, has numerous forced carries and not enough forward tees*, greens without much movement and there's a pretty good chance most players will walk off the 18th feeling beat-up and fatigued and wanting a drink! :)
The other is significantly less expensive, has some cracking rollercoaster land, small greens with lots of slope and you'll most likely walk off the 18th with a smile on your face wanting to play more.
atb


* - see http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66360.0.html




« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 06:50:45 AM by Thomas Dai »

Niall C

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2018, 07:34:49 AM »

Either way, I find it interesting how the Irish rank / view their own courses compared to the outside world. It is generally different.


Ally

I think you can fairly say the same thing about Scotland, and I suspect it would hold true in a lot of other places as well. Perhaps the difference is down to the international jet-set hit and run raters who maybe don't really appreciate the nuances but simply enjoy the ambience  ;D

Niall

David Davis

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2018, 02:24:41 PM »

I love County Down.  The look of Pacific Dunes borrows a lot from there.


But I have to disagree that it has no weaknesses.  They are:


1.  The front nine is so much better than the back nine, and that is anathema to most people's idea of how it should go.


2.  There are lots of blind holes ... I'm okay with them, but lots of people aren't.  And,


3.  The finishing holes still aren't good.  I think I liked the old 16th more than the new one, which tries too hard to enforce "shot values".  And the 18th is now littered with bunkers, which can't distract from the fact that it is a boring, play-straight-down-the-fairway type of hole.


I had it as a 9 when I first did my ratings, and though two of my co-authors think it's a 10, I can't concur.


Tom,


Fair enough comments. I will admit to always having agreed with your first statement but the thing is, that front 9 "might" be the the world's best 9. Definitely one of the best 9's and largely due not only to the routing but also to the extremely unique and varied landscape they had to work with. I agree it is stronger than the back 9 but I wouldn't agree that it's "so much" better. I really don't see a bad hole on the back 9 and the finish is in my mind way underrated only because the land is less spectacular.


16 might be the weakest hole on the course, but hey there are 18 holes and one has to be the weakest on every course. If that's the weakest hole and it still could be one of the best holes on other highly ranked courses then we are most definitely splitting hairs.


I do find it intersting how members like to play that hole. At least the strong playing members I played with this weekend. They actually aim right of the current fairway. which is literally in the rough or even further to the right into the heather. That way they can approach the back to front sloping green more into the slope. I didn't like that strategy really but the wind was up and I couldn't succeed in putting the ball where I wanted to put it. Maybe there could be a strategic improvement made but the only thing I could think of would be to play the hole when into the wind from the women's tee and make it a real risk reward drivable 4 in current set up. Due to the crazy tilt of the green and the penalizing bunkers it feels like that would be a reasonable option or to play.


To me 17 and 18 are both excellent holes. I can't agree with you on 18, it plays as a dogleg left, really challenges you off the tee, actually to play something other than driver to play into the wider area short of all the bunkers on the right. Then the second shot is also really interesting and needs to be placed well. Finally the approach into that green into the wind is really a challenged and actually rewards a short miss above any other. The green complex is really interesting as well. I'd agree with Mark's comments there.


When did you see it for the last time Tom?


Ally,


You know how the grass is always greener? It's interesting that Tom suggests that only really good players love RCD. You saw me play, anything but really good although My best round of the weekend was the first round at RCD and I was on fire in terms of hitting fairways in the wind and scored really well as well. For some reason I'm a big fan of the blind shots and I'm guessing the Irishmen you speak of would love all the high end Fazio courses in the US as one of the trademarks there is that you can "always" see everything right in front of you. No tricks, no blind shots and not bad lies as long as you play it as you see it. I doubt you will find many purists that would feel that way but that's why there are different strokes for different folks. The games this weekend with you at Portrush and at Royal County Down made me feel more than ever that having 14 clubs is just useless and confusing for a simpleton as myself. I could hardly get myself to just take a full swing with a certain club, always choking down on a 5 iron, punching a 7, trying to hook something into the wind or pulling out the 2 iron. I empty my bag of half the clubs and then even found I had too many.


I guess the level of guys you were talking about prefer to hit each club to it's exact distance and know that if they strike it well the reward is what they are use to. That's not really links golf but there is a big place where you can enjoy 39,975 courses that will play exactly like that. Perhaps just a small percentage of us that hail from over there dream of the opposite. Guilty as charged.


Mark,


Can you explain why you think 17 is a terrible hole?


You have a tee shot that is always a challenge and has to be carefully measured to insure you don't run out into the hazard, then you have a challenging approach up the hills that ideally will just crest the front of the green that is running away from you with some crazy slopes. The green alone makes it a wonderful hole. Juding the tee shot appropriatly certainly ads to it. They could perhaps reshape the water hazard but again, it's aparently natural and the way it's always been.






Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2018, 03:05:46 PM »
Thing is David, I’m talking about the members of my club, who on average are perhaps the purist of the purists, links golfers through and through.... sure they are not all GCA buffs but they know their links golf. RCD just doesn’t appeal to a lot of them.


I think overall they’re wrong but I agree in so much as there are courses in Ireland that I prefer and indeed think are better. But I’d be splitting hairs. The others are quite clear.


Mark_F

Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2018, 04:57:00 PM »
Mark,


Can you explain why you think 17 is a terrible hole?


You have a tee shot that is always a challenge and has to be carefully measured to insure you don't run out into the hazard, then you have a challenging approach up the hills that ideally will just crest the front of the green that is running away from you with some crazy slopes. The green alone makes it a wonderful hole. Juding the tee shot appropriatly certainly ads to it. They could perhaps reshape the water hazard but again, it's aparently natural and the way it's always been.


David,


From my memories you have a downhill lie to an uphill green pretty much no matter where you are on the fairway.  There is a flat part at the top of the fairway, but that's too far back to really make a choice to lay up there for a flat lie.  The pond covers the fairway enough so that playing to one side or the other isn't really an option. 


It really might just be the shape of the hazard.  It does appear so odd, and I wondered why they wouldn't reshape it into a burn so that you had a choice to go closer to one side or the other, and the green is so good, the pond really is a blemish, even if it is natural.


It's a cracking course, though, and even better when, in 2012 when I played it, the exchange rate was so good the fifty quid i was charged worked out at $75 Aus.  ;D

Jim Nugent

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Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2018, 05:27:36 PM »
I've read a number of times on this website that Ballybunion has more than a few pedestrian holes on the front side.  I once even read that the first six holes were averageish. 

Is that true, wholly or partly, and if so how does that compare with RCD? 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2018, 06:13:01 AM »


The biggest take away from the several rounds this last weekend is how much better the 16-18th holes were than I remember them. To be fair I think they have been changed. I'd kind of like to see 16 play as a true drivable par 4 but what are you gonna say. It's an excellent hole as is. 17 as well is controversial and gets quite a bit of negative comments but I think the hole is strategically excellent. How can you rip a hole because of a natural spring in it? The location of the water is just so that you have to think about your tee shot yet ideally you get as close to it as you can in order to have a short iron into this wonerful green. 18 on the other hand is a cracker of a strong finishing hole.

I'm struggling to see a single weakness on this course, I'm surprised it's not discussed more on GCA as it no doubt warrants as much discussion for the greens and surrounds as any course in the world.

I love County Down.  The look of Pacific Dunes borrows a lot from there.

But I have to disagree that it has no weaknesses.  They are:

1.  The front nine is so much better than the back nine, and that is anathema to most people's idea of how it should go.

2.  There are lots of blind holes ... I'm okay with them, but lots of people aren't.  And,

3.  The finishing holes still aren't good.  I think I liked the old 16th more than the new one, which tries too hard to enforce "shot values".  And the 18th is now littered with bunkers, which can't distract from the fact that it is a boring, play-straight-down-the-fairway type of hole.

I had it as a 9 when I first did my ratings, and though two of my co-authors think it's a 10, I can't concur.

I don't love the finish, but I wouldn't say its a weakness.  What I don't like are the blind tee shots to narrow fairways. The somewhat dull greens haven't been mentioned.  I would take that as a bigger weakness than the finish.  I am an extreme outlier, but I wasn't enthralled by RCD.  The course was simply too narrow combined with horrific rough.  For sure RCD is great, but not a course which captured my golfing soul.  I much prefer Ballybunion, but that is mainly down to superior greens.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Michael Pelliccione

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2018, 08:05:33 AM »
Great pictures Jim, thanks for sharing!  Reminds me of one of the best golfing days in recent memory.  Need to revisit after viewing theses.

Jim Tang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down in Pictures
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2018, 09:39:12 PM »
Thanks Michael!  When were you last there?  It has been nearly 10 years since I was in Ireland and Northern Ireland and I need to get back that way.  I think I may prefer the courses, the land and the people there more than anywhere else.

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