Wine Valley -- Wow indeed !

[Matt_Ward]

Slag:

I have a great photo person and once the article is set in motion I can then use the other photos in other areas as I wish.

WV is a wonderful layout and frankly for all the hype places like Wild Horse and Rustic Canyon get -- WV is, in my mind at least, superior to both.

The Gorge area you mentioned is a treat to see and with the new highway completed leading out to the course it's so much e-z-ier to get there now.

The superintendent at WV deserves high marks for the manner in which the course presents itself. F & F is talked about frequently on this site but WV is the real deal in that regard. I look forward to a return round there -- hopefully with you in the same group with me.

[Matt_Ward]

Should have a few photos up very shortly ... thanks for the patience !

[Mark Nelson]

Wine Valley is indeed an incredible golf course and experience! Being lucky enough to have played the likes of Rock Creek Cattle Company, Bandon's Big 4, Chambers Bay and Circling Raven, the Wine Valley Golf Club needs to be put in the same catagory! The group was comprised of 8 golf industry guys and we all loved it! Challenging yet fair test of golf. Instant favorite!

[Norbert P]

  Mark (and entourage),  glad y'all enjoyed it. 

   I just spoke with Super Tyler this afternoon.  New back tees have gone in on 1,2 5, 8 and 9.

   A few new bunkers are still being considered.

  As an aside, they have not watered anything except greens since mid-September.  All lines purged now.

 

[Matt_Ward]

Slag:

Can you provide specs on just how much length has been added to the holes you mentioned ?

Are the tees that were added angled in anyway -- or just extended from where present tee boxes are now ?

[Pete_Pittock]

I was at Wine Valley on Memorial Day playing a tournament, foursomes in about five hours. A lot of time was spent watching the group in front putt and putt and putt as they had some uber-difficult pins and most of the field was neophytes to WVGC. SW (dead into you on #1) wind varying from 8-15 mph, which I guess was the opposite directon from the day before. Shirt sleeves by noon even for the less hardy. Stimping around 11 with some uber-difficult pins chosen. Scoring was high and I beat some players who can usually whip and outdrive me with ease. They now have a yardage book which is best used for determining how your tee shot measures up against the fairway bunkering. I guess this was my first time playing to the #3 pin settings as sor the first time I had to putt to the shelves on the left side of 2, 6 and 8.
I had forgotton how much fun I have playing at this course, especially since it is cheaper and  closer to my home than Bandon. Can hardly wait until the next time.

[Kalen Braley]

I was at Wine Valley on Memorial Day playing a tournament, foursomes in about five hours. A lot of time was spent watching the group in front putt and putt and putt as they had some uber-difficult pins and most of the field was neophytes to WVGC. SW (dead into you on #1) wind varying from 8-15 mph, which I guess was the opposite directon from the day before. Shirt sleeves by noon even for the less hardy. Stimping around 11 with some uber-difficult pins chosen. Scoring was high and I beat some players who can usually whip and outdrive me with ease. They now have a yardage book which is best used for determining how your tee shot measures up against the fairway bunkering. I guess this was my first time playing to the #3 pin settings as sor the first time I had to putt to the shelves on the left side of 2, 6 and 8.
I had forgotton how much fun I have playing at this course, especially since it is cheaper and  closer to my home than Bandon. Can hardly wait until the next time.

Pete,

Last time I was down there in March we had to play to those shelves on #2 and #8 as well.  The left shelf on #8 is a doozy to try to get the ball to stop up there.

Wine Valley is indeed the real deal and can't wait to get down there again this year.

[Pete_Pittock]

Kalen,
 Tee shots have to trickle down the side slope. With the angles I had strategy was to put safe to about 5-10 feet away and hope for a save.

[Garland Bayley]

Say Matt, when are you going to put the pictures up?

[David Davis]

There were some comments on the Gamble Sands thread about Wine Valley. Incidentally it was the last stop on my Washington road trip and it was the first time I had played the course. I knew a little about it but had not read any of the reviews etc. Together with Gamble Sands they were the missing links in my Washington resume. First of all as has been mentioned Walla Walla is a serious drive away from most of civilization unless the Tri Cities are qualifies there. I'm not 100% certain of that even having played a fair number of tennis tournaments there as a kid.


As for the course, I was really happy I made the 3.5 hour drive from Coeur d'Alene to play it before then driving the 5.5 hours home to my mom's house in Oregon. So yes, it's worth 8.5 hours of driving. That's a good start. I caught it on an extremely hot day (well maybe not for them). I hit the course at 105 degrees. It's a walking course for sure....I didn't walk. I wish I could of but honestly, I'm not that stupid. I could of done it and have done many rounds in 100 degrees but not followed by a 5.5 hour drive.


It's definitely an if you build it they will come affair. I was there on a Thursday, started playing at 12:30 and I was really surprised at how many people were out on the course. I was told there was a nice gap because nobody played at that time and several 4 balls had started early but seemed to see people all over the place and ran into groups as I approached the 7th hole. Happy to see this level of business being generated during the week, during working hours and while it's hotter than hell. Make no mistake about it. 105 degrees is hotter than hell.


I think they did a great job on this course. I enjoyed the routing, it felt natural, greens were very intersting as well. Bunkering also thoughtfully done and looking natural for the most part. The only part I really couldn't figure out was how lush and soft the course was playing. When I read Matt's initial comments he suggests firm and fast. Maybe that's because the course was new?


Has anyone been out there that has also played Chambers Bay or Gamble Sands? I mean those are perfectly maintained and very firm and fast. If Wine Valley had that level of firmness then it would be so much more fun.


So I'm missing something here. What's happened? Who's been out there in the last years and played a firm and fast course?


As of right now I'd say great fun course, but they need to send their Head Greenkeeper over to do an exchange with Gamble Sands and work that stuff out.


I don't see this as a negative comment just one they could very quickly do something about.


- however I will as the question to any of the experts here. What would be the reason they would keep the course so lush in these conditions when it's really not that kind of course. I mean it's not really a parkland. Would they lose the turf for example? I'm more in favor of courses letting the weather dictate the conditions. So when it's hot and dry for a long period the course would play firm and fast. When it's very wet, perhaps it will be greener but hopefully still firm and fast if it's a links or inland links style course.


Curious about others comments.

[Kalen Braley]

David,


I've played the course 4 times in the past, and while it was never fast and firm like a Bandon, it certainly was never wet and slow either. My only guess is that given the super hot temps, its like many courses here in Salt Lake city where they put down a lot of water to make sure they don't lose the grass in the sustained dry heat, (especially like this summer where it didnt cool down much at night)


I suspect if you went there in October when the cooler temps have set in, it would be a very different experience, just like many of the courses here that firm up being cooler and using a lot less water.

[David Davis]

David,


I've played the course 4 times in the past, and while it was never fast and firm like a Bandon, it certainly was never wet and slow either. My only guess is that given the super hot temps, its like many courses here in Salt Lake city where they put down a lot of water to make sure they don't lose the grass in the sustained dry heat, (especially like this summer where it didnt cool down much at night)


I suspect if you went there in October when the cooler temps have set in, it would be a very different experience, just like many of the courses here that firm up being cooler and using a lot less water.

Kalen,


Thanks, I thought you might chime in. I can see that argument but why is it not also valid for Gamble Sands?

[Kalen Braley]

Hey David,


It could be that Gamble Sands is built on actual sand, so the surface drains better and less wet?  Unlike Wine Valley which is not built on sand, but a very fine dirt.


Could also be that given its quite a bit further north and higher elevation the summer temps could be a lot more mild. I know the tri-cities area does get quite warm in the summers, even significantly more so than the Spokane area which is only 2-3 hours away.

[Tyler Kearns]

David,


I played Wine Valley in April 2015 and it was playing firm and fast, in fact, the greens were in perfect condition and required a deft touch.  Kalen is probably right, extra watering during the exceptionally hot conditions.


Tyler

[Kalen Braley]

Historically, its high 80s, low 90s this time of year, so 105 was certainly exceptional!


P.S.  The Spokane area is full of soft, parkland courses where I played for several years, so going down to Walla Walla, i recall vividly how fast and firm it was relatively speaking.  David, if you read this entire thread, you'll see most others who have played it report similar conditions from a few years back.  Its possible mgmt has changed since then along with the "maintenance meld".

[Pete_Pittock]

My experiences at Wine Valley, maybe 10 plays, was that it was on the firm and fast side, playing about 350-400 yards shorter than the card. It is a course that rewards my relatively low ball flight. They must have had enough water on the course to allow cart usage, otherwise they'd leave semi-permanent tire tracks.

[Garland Bayley]

Last time I played there it was 105 and the ball wouldn't stop running. But, a sample size of 1 is not a dependable indicator.

[Matthew Essig]

I'll also add on saying I've always played it firm and fast. Wet and slow is news to me! If I were you, I would have gone inside and said, "I'm going to be honest, I was disappointed. I thought this course was supposed to be firm and fast" to give them some feedback and a backhanded slap. I'm sorry to hear that you had to play it in those conditions, but I'm glad to hear you still thought it was worth the 8.5 hours of driving. I always try to tell people about Wine Valley when I have a chance!

[David Davis]

Gents,


Really good to hear the norm is fast and furious. That is really what I had expected. I was just told they also had a big event coming up so maybe they were preparing for this so that could also help explain the softer than normal conditions. The other thing is that perhaps it's all relative and since I had just come from Gamble Sands which was also in perfect shape and as firm and fast as could be the fact that there was not a huge amount of roll in the fairways and the greens were receptive could be relative.


It's hard to determine without knowing you guy well what your individual ideas of fast and firm are. However, Matthew one thing I didn't really say was wet. I wouldn't call it wet. I would say too soft for my preference. Too lush for my preference but not too wet.


So in light of all the comments I'm happy to accept that the temps meant they needed to water more to save the turf and they were also preparing for the big event they have which was some big regional championship tournament.


Both do a lot to answer the questions. By the way the course was in excellent shape I will add. I hope I didn't give the impression of anything else. Otherwise I would of complained about the 8,5 hour drive ha ha...

[Garland Bayley]

Sprinklers come on at night. The later in the day you play, the faster the course will play. I last played late in the day.