[Thomas Dai]

Seems like par-3’s have morphed over the years to the extent that many/most are likely of a similar length. Okay there might be an occasional long one or short one but they don’t seem to occur too often.
So which club .. short irons, mid irons, long irons, hybrids, fairway metals, Driver even …do you find you pull out of your bag most frequently when playing par-3’s these days? And does this confirm the perception I’ve mentioned in the first couple of sentences of this thread?
Atb

[Jeff_Brauer]

Thomas,
 
Back in the 90s, I had a course just miss the best new list on Golf Digest.  They sent out the panelists rankings and comments in those days, and I was struck by the most common negative comment on that course - the Par 3 holes were too similar in distance.  And, there was a 130, a couple of 160-170's and a 190.  It seemed to me that the mantra for par 3 holes was "all lengths" and "all points of the compass" to differentiate them in golfers' minds.


That got me into a string of courses where the par 3 holes were 130-170-210- and up to 260 plus or minus.  My longest par 3 (back tees only) was about 295, built right after the US Open at Oakmont which had the 8th at over 300, if I recall correctly.  Anyway, I did have golfers tell me "I remember all of the par 3 holes" (especially those over 250, LOL)


I didn't always make the middle tees similarly long.  From working at golf courses and then my design apprentice period, those that influenced me felt average golfers hated a 3 wood into a par 3, and liked 5 iron - maybe one 3 iron tops -  at most.  On par 3 holes, you can accomplish that with tee spacing and get both.  Basically, for those who only hit a dozen or less good shots per round, the par 3 holes were their chance to get a "greenie."  Or, put another way, they were the fun holes for most.


I am getting back to that concept as I age, designing more for fun than awards, rankings, or Tour Pros who will never show up.  To quote my dad, "Golf should be fun.....Dammit!"  And, as I lose distance, I find it is a bit embarrassing to be hitting hybrid to a 180 yard hole, and I'm sure many other older golfers feel the same, even if they don't say it out loud.....


So, maybe they are morphing to more standard distances from the old days (i.e., 1990's...I think before that they were typically 150-190 yards from the middle tees and the ultra long and short ones were products of/reactions to golf raters.

[jeffwarne]

Seems like par-3’s have morphed over the years to the extent that many/most are likely of a similar length. Okay there might be an occasional long one or short one but they don’t seem to occur too often.
So which club .. short irons, mid irons, long irons, hybrids, fairway metals, Driver even …do you find you pull out of your bag most frequently when playing par-3’s these days? And does this confirm the perception I’ve mentioned in the first couple of sentences of this thread?
Atb

Once upon a time, when there weren't so many tees, there were long par 3's and it wasn't considered crazy that someone couldn't reach them.
There were 250-260 yard par 3's when few drove it that far.
Now, in the era of 300 plus yard drives, middle tees are never designed that long, and older courses have added tees to neuter long par 3's from anywhere but the back tees, and ironically, they aren't long for the players that actually wander back there.


And of course no one designs 100 yard par 3's due to tee space and "quirk" issues.


I used to laugh in the 90's about how every par 3 in Florida was 190 over water.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think the USGA did a decent job setting up the lengths of the par threes at Torrey Pines.

[Brad Lawrence]

I feel like part threes are the only time I hit middle irons.  I rarely have more than a 8-9 iron to a par 4 while many par threes seem to be 175-200. 


If I were an architect, I would love the challenge of having a very short and a very long part three where somehow the long one plays easier than the short one. 


Par threes are the holes I look forward to the least. So many of them feel cliché.

[Dan Herrmann]

.

[Wayne_Kozun]

And of course no one designs 100 yard par 3's due to tee space and "quirk" issues.

Both Cabot Links (14) and Cabot Cliffs (9) have 100 yard par 3s.

[Jeff_Brauer]

On that 290 yarder, the pro was a good player, and he went out there and tried to direct a bit of a downslope into the green.  When I asked him (the approach was really just level to uphill 2%) he said his 3 wood landed at about 280, and he felt that little downslope would propel a shot to the back pin. (It was a Biarittz green)


Talk about designing around your own game, sheesh.


A 90 yard par 3 would probably just have the tee extend all the way to the green.  There was a time when many pros touted those as harder than 130 yard holes, because you had to club down and guess how hard to hit it.  Then, they invented gap wedges of all degrees loft, and basically, now they all play as a full something.  Given most courses don't want to appear too short, one 90 yard par 3, vs 190 yards, hurts the cause more than it helps it.


As to Brad's point, for tour players, they do play the hardest because they have to play longer clubs in compared to a second shot after their absolute bomb of a drive.  That drove the trend to at least a few long par 3 holes from the back tees, because there wasn't anywhere to test the long iron.  And, those holes often had tiny greens just to reinforce what the challenge was. 


But, again, it depends on the course.  A muni inhabited by seniors who hit it 180 max probably doesn't need a 260 yard par 3....although I have put a few of those out there, LOL.

[Peter Pallotta]

JB -
when I first read your post about golfers complaining that the Par 3s (of 130, 160-70, and 190 yards) played much the same, I thought they were being silly/too picky. But I can see how, with a lackadaisical maintenance crew, the situation could easily arise where the pin was at the back on the 130 yard hole, just about the middle on the 160 and 170 yard holes, and at the very front of the 190 yard hole -- and how, factoring in the wind direction too, a golfer might well find himself having a 7 iron in hand for every Par 3! 

[JohnVDB]

A friend of mine was running a two-day tournament.  On day 1 he setup the 4 par3s in a way that they were all different yardages, but all required the same club.  The next day he set them all at the same yardage but they all required a different club.

[jeffwarne]

A friend of mine was running a two-day tournament.  On day 1 he setup the 4 par3s in a way that they were all different yardages, but all required the same club.  The next day he set them all at the same yardage but they all required a different club.

Hopefully that was on purpose...

[JESII]

As JVDB indicates, I think this is about set up at least as much as about architecture. The holes can have nice variety which can be completely denuded by the set up...either intentionally or not.


I played a two-day tournament a couple months ago and and the four par 3's were all 6-irons on day 1 and the first two on day two were as well. Then a 5-iron and an 8-iron but this was a set up issue and I don't think it was intentional.


I love a real short par 3...100 - 120 yards. Also think there's a place for a wood into a par 3 as well.

[Forrest Richardson]

What makes par-3s truly unique are two factors:

1. It is the only shot to the green (save short par-4s that are reachable by macho hitters) where the golf architect says, "Stand here, and only here, and play a shot directly to the green..." Every other hole leads to the golfer choosing where to play a short into the green.

2. It is the only tee shot where you find it possible for a player to hit any number of swings with one single club...e.g., at the short par-3 a single wedge or short iron can be hit as a 1/2 swing, 3/4 swing, etc.

[Tim Gavrich]

All things being equal, it's good when the four par 3s represent a good range of lengths. That said, I think on otherwise short courses it's good to bump the par 3 yardages up a bit. Hitting a variety of clubs throughout a set of par 3s is good, but the overall variety of a course's 18 approach shots is more important, isn't it?


Sedgefield is a great example of this, with two 220+ par 3s that balance out a not crazy long set of 4s and, especially, 5s. Trevino called it the best 18 par 4s in golf. I find that to be a compliment and evidence of Ross' willingness to modulate the 3s to fit into the overall basket of shots the course calls for.

[Matt_Cohn]

A friend of mine was running a two-day tournament.  On day 1 he setup the 4 par3s in a way that they were all different yardages, but all required the same club.  The next day he set them all at the same yardage but they all required a different club.

Even when it's unintentional....courses with a front-middle-back rotation (or the like). You can have holes at 150 and 180, but if the 150 is always back when the 180 is front...boom, same club.


At Baylands, Forrest Richardson built two long par 3's, 8 and 17. The greens are somewhat similar, and since they're 9 holes apart they always have the same hole location!

[Terry Lavin]

We have five par 3’s at Beverly. From the member tees, here are the lengths:


#3: 195
#6: 165
#10:180
#12:125
#17:215


Only the 12th has a carry over a pond. The 6th is straight downhill to a well protected green. 17 has an extremely difficult putting surface. 10 is tucked into a corner of the property that can make the tee shot intimidating. 3 is pretty flat and straightforward, but it ain’t easy.


In terms of club selection, I’m usually hitting 5 wood on at least 2 of these holes and a short iron only on one.   


I like them as a set because of their diversity. Just as an aside, the back tees are really far back on 3 and 17.

[JohnVDB]

Probably the only criticism I have of Royal Dornoch is that the par 3s can all play with very similar if not the same clubs from the members tees.  Of course, that is dependent on the wind on any day.


This is similar to my criticism of Pacific Dunes because of the setup where they go front/middle/back all the way around which results in all the par 5s being in the same portion of the green on any day.  I haven’t been to Bandon since 2011 so they might have gotten more creative since then.


Neither destroy the challenge of the holes, but they do make then a little repetitive.

[Tim Martin]

We have five par 3’s at Beverly. From the member tees, here are the lengths:


#3: 195
#6: 165
#10:180
#12:125
#17:215


Only the 12th has a carry over a pond. The 6th is straight downhill to a well protected green. 17 has an extremely difficult putting surface. 10 is tucked into a corner of the property that can make the tee shot intimidating. 3 is pretty flat and straightforward, but it ain’t easy.


In terms of club selection, I’m usually hitting 5 wood on at least 2 of these holes and a short iron only on one.   


I like them as a set because of their diversity. Just as an aside, the back tees are really far back on 3 and 17.

Kittansett has a diverse set at 155, 190, 220 and 175 from the member tees.

[Sean_A]

I am in favour of utilising the 90-125 and 220-300 ranges.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

I am in favour of utilising the 90-125 and 220-300 ranges.
Ciao

+1
Less than 90 would be fine too.
atb

[Cal Seifert]

The 5th at Streamsong Blue played 75 yards from the 6200 yard tees for me last week.  Everyone in my group had good fun and the shot had significant challenge due to the little front right pot bunker lurking nearby.  Hitting a flip wedge into a green like that requires precision that can be very memorable.

[Thomas Dai]

The 5th at Streamsong Blue played 75 yards from the 6200 yard tees for me last week.  Everyone in my group had good fun and the shot had significant challenge due to the little front right pot bunker lurking nearby.  Hitting a flip wedge into a green like that requires precision that can be very memorable.

Well said.
Pick a great green complex, not a tricked-up one, just a great one, and play it from circa 75 yds with varying tee angles. Doubt there'd be many 2's but there'd be a lot of 4's and a few 5's etc too. And many a bruised ego!
atb

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