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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« on: December 12, 2015, 10:04:26 PM »
The 1st green at CC of Troy from short left:


From back left with the 2nd green in the background:
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 02:29:07 PM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 08:05:18 AM »
The sad part about Exhibit A is that there are relatively few golf course architects working today who have ever built anything like that.  It's quite simple, but requires both some shaping talent and some restraint.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 09:46:34 AM »
Tom -


Between shaping talent and restraint, restraint is the one in shortest supply.




Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 10:03:30 AM »
Travis was all about restraint, especially on the green surfaces.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2015, 10:29:57 AM »
I think Laval’s new course has a chance to be considered among the best in Quebec. However, I also think there are some that will find its lack of fairway bunkers distressing. I’m sure there will be some who find it a bit plain. That’s not my perspective — I think it works — but I wonder if others might find the lack of bunkering means the course lacks some definition.
[/size][/color]
[/size]This was part of a review of Laval's Blue Course. It shows the typical reaction to showing architectural restraint, golfers might appreciate it, but reviewers used to seeing "much more" find themselves conflicted over what's missing.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]For some perspective, because few would know Laval, it relied on cross-slope in landings, reverse cants and slow turning doglegs through large trees as a more subtle approach to needing to work the ball. [/color]
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2015, 10:35:40 AM »
Bogey,


Just curious, what club would of the average golfer, yes that means you, be required to use to access that hole location?
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Peter Pallotta

Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2015, 10:53:49 AM »
Bob - nicely put. I might (sometimes) even go further, i.e.: the restraint is the talent -- much thought and imagination and know-how lies behind that ability/choice to be restrained.

Ian - that strikes me as the classic case of a reviewer projecting onto an imagined class of average golfers his own limitations, and then laying over a patina of "fair mindedness" by acknowledging that others just "might not" appreciate what he himself is able to.  Note that he doesn't appear to notice or evaluate the reverse cants and cross slopes and gentle doglegs as the strategic equivalents of the (absent) bunkers.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 10:59:03 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Brett Wiesley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2015, 10:57:06 AM »
I'm not sure I understand your thread title, and/or question.  Are you criticizing CC of Troy, or applauding it? 


I played there this past Summer and thought the course was very cool, and was a pleasant surprise to play.  Difficult in a very subtle way.  As mentioned, trying to hit the green on the 1st hole is a challenge.  I appreciated the rolling terrain, but towards the end of the round found I was fatiguing with regard to the semiblind uphill approach shots.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2015, 02:43:36 PM »
Give me an entire course of some of that first photo and some new mow patterns and will have a good profitable golf course....I like that kind of stuff....I think some would be surprised how they would score on such a place...

Merry Christmas...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2015, 02:48:09 PM »
Pete, I recall a weak push on the tee.  The approach was blind from a right hillside and I hit a solid draw that I expected to be close.  It likely hit short and bounded over the back, leaving a tough pitch up the abrupt rear bank. I'm guessing most mere humans will have 140 +/- yards ideally favoring the right half of the green.

Forgot this pic looking back up the fairway:



Brett, I love this golf course.  It makes my top ten list I'd like to play every day. Strong routing over an undulating property, room off the tee, great use of short grass surrounding greens and just enough Travis quirk both on and around the greens.

Ron, I like the fact that Travis mixes restraint and boldness into his greens - a little bit of everything, like this:


and this:


You MUST profile the par three at Yahnundasis that tees off down by the pool.

Bogey
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 02:56:15 PM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2015, 02:49:29 PM »
Give me an entire course of some of that first photo and some new mow patterns and will have a good profitable golf course....I like that kind of stuff....I think some would be surprised how they would score on such a place...

Merry Christmas...

Agreed, although I would go with "a mow pattern"(single cut except the greens, of course) vs "some new mow patterns"...
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: There's No Excuse for Indifferent Golf Architecture: Exhibit A
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2015, 04:36:33 PM »
You MUST profile the par three at Yahnundasis that tees off down by the pool.
Bogey


A pool in a pond...the Caddyshack wet dream
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

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