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mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Woodland Hills and Victoria
« on: February 24, 2015, 08:14:51 PM »
What are some of the best holes on these Socal layouts.   Which of the two courses  has the most interesting  green
contouring  ?

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 10:14:24 PM by mark chalfant »

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 08:27:22 PM »
WHat are some of the best holes on these Socal  layouts. Which of the  two course has the most interesting geeen
contouring

Thanks

Mark, are you talking about Max Behr's Victoria in Riverside?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria CAL.
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 09:18:44 PM »
Yes David,

I think  its  near Arroyo  Drive  in Riverside


David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 10:22:48 PM »
Ok. I haven't played Woodland Hills, a William P Bell course, but from what Tom Naccarato has told me, the 3rd and 4th holes are very cool, shorter length par 4's. He knows the course quite well.


Victoria has alot of Behr left, including the par 5 15th Alps hole that is featured in George Thomas' book. It has a version of a Hog's Back hole, the par 4 3rd, and several other very solid holes. The par 3 16th is very good. It's worth the play. A 5 or 6 on the Doak scale.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 10:29:49 PM »
Ok. I haven't played Woodland Hills, a William P Bell course, but from what Tom Naccarato has told me, the 3rd and 4th holes are very cool, shorter length par 4's. He knows the course quite well.


Victoria has alot of Behr left, including the par 5 15th Alps hole that is featured in George Thomas' book. It has a version of a Hog's Back hole, the par 4 3rd, and several other very solid holes. The par 3 16th is very good. It's worth the play. A 5 or 6 on the Doak scale.

The 15th hole is very cool
Lots of good greens out there.
Haven't played Woodland Hills but I concur with Victoria's rating
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 11:40:02 PM »
Woodland Hills may be the closest to great classic quirk to be found in SoCal. Wish I had more photos because there are quite a few excellent gree ns complexes.  This is a very tight hilly course.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 11:42:23 PM by Robert Mercer Deruntz »

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 12:34:08 AM »

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 12:37:17 AM »
Victoria 15th
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 12:40:54 AM by Robert Mercer Deruntz »

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 12:02:51 PM »
The photos of Robert's highlight the obvious flaw of the 15th. The stupid trees. Some would argue that the drawing of the hole in GT's book shows trees, but to me it's relevant. I would have a hard time believing that Behr intended a sentry of full grown trees blocking the Alps hill. It makes the bunkers in the hill face superfluous.  Fatal flaw that thwarts the potential greatness of the hole. And it's ugly as sin.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 08:20:00 PM »
David  and  Robert,

Thanks so much for these cool photos.  LA  certainly has some hidden gems worth exploring  !

Jim Eder

Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2015, 03:13:54 PM »
Here are pics of Woodland Hills. I really like the course, it is quirky and fun.

I hope you enjoy these.

Blue Tees 6203yds Par 70 Slope 127 70.7

#1 381yds

Tee Shot



Approach



#2 159yds

Par 3



#3 473yds Par 5

Tee Shot



Long approach

The long approach is uphill and blind so I skipped the pic

Short approach



#4 483yds Par 5

Tee shot



Long approach



Short approach



#5 306yds

Tee shot


View from top of hill that makes it a blind tee shot




Approach



#6 Par 3 196yds



#7 Par 3 177yds



#8 375yds

Tee shot



Approach



#9 355yds

Tee shot



Approach



#10 400yds

Tee shot



Approach



#11 356yds

Tee shot



Approach



#12 Par 3 179yds



#13 411yds

Tee shot



Approach



#14 404yds

Tee shot



Approach




#15 Par 3 148yds



#16 469yds

Tee shot




Approach



#17 398yds

Tee shot



Approach



#18 533yds

Tee shot




Long approach




Short approach





Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2015, 04:26:21 PM »
Have not played Woodland Hills, but Vic was our home course for my senior year in college back when UC Riverside was still a club team.  1 and 2 are very short.  You probably don't pull driver until the 4th hole, and this was back in the small head Burner Plus days.  7 used to present a real question of whether to try and bomb it down the hill and possibly get stuck on a severe downslope, or lay back in the fairway, which still presented a shot with the ball likely well above your feet.  And the aforementioned 15th is one of four par fives in the last five holes.  It closes 3, 5, 5, 3, 5, 5 unless they've altered it.  From what I can tell, the major work has been the pond they put in between the 12th and 17th holes.  The creek had some problems with flooding and erosion as well, which caused some problems on 14, a par 5 where you're forced to lay up off the tee.  If they've reclaimed some of that land, it may be a better hole now.  

As for the greens, 1 has a great back to front slope.  I seem to recall that 5 had some weird angles for a par three and a really good green.  Six was a longish par four with some great internal contouring on the green.  I think 12 was probably the best green on the course, and along with six, probably the toughest par.  The course back then could have used a few fewer trees, but in some places, like on 9, they probably forced either a more accurate tee shot, or some creativity on the second.  

I always enjoyed playing Victoria, and I'd love to get back there in the next couple years.  I'd really like to play it with newer technology and with a better game than I had in 1995 to see how it holds up.  Though at its length, I think it would be a great course for hickories.  
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 04:28:22 PM by Bill Seitz »

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2015, 09:31:07 PM »
Thanks for the photos, Jim.  Well done.

Woodland Hills is such a fun course to play...as you said, lots of quirk.  It seems to be evolving well with the ongoing bunker work and tree removal.  Definitely under the radar, and an absolute hidden gem when it comes to the clubs of Southern California.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Jim Eder

Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2015, 02:10:08 PM »
Greg,

You are very welcome. Glad you enjoyed the pics. It is a lot of fun. I love the place.

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2015, 04:37:30 PM »
Jim,

Thank you for the great  photos of what looks to be a compact,  sporty,  and above all magnificent  Golden Age golf course

Jim Eder

Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2015, 01:49:35 PM »
Mark,

You are very welcome. I am glad you enjoyed the pics. Hopefully you will be able to get out there and enjoy in person someday.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodland Hills and Victoria
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2016, 01:14:43 PM »
Was looking through a couple of old articles on Girard G&C n/k/a Woodland Hills CC.  There are several references on this site to William P. Bell being responsible for the entire 18 holes, after John Duncan Dunn was initially brought on to do the design.  I'm curious as to how we know that none of Dunn's design made it onto the ground, as there seems to have been a bit of a hiccup between the construction of the two nines.

The other interesting bit of information comes from the article below, which notes that many of the holes were designed based on holes from the famous championship courses back East.  For those that have played the course, are there any striking similarities that jump to mind?

Los Angeles Times Nov. 22, 1925 -

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

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