[ed_getka]

I know this will be a limited response due to the courses involved. Which is tougher #8 Pine Valley or #15 Augusta with a short iron approach? I have walked both courses and the PV approach seems more difficult. Perhaps that is my 10 handicap perspective. They keep saying on TV during the Masters that the wedge to 15 is the toughest short iron approach. What does the Treehouse think?

[ed_getka]

Calling Patrick Mucci.

[Chris Cupit]

For me it's not even close. 15 was way tougher and more intimidating. I've gone for the green twice from the top of the hill and felt more comfortable hitting that shot versus the 90 yard wedge from a slight downhill lie.

8 at PV was no biggie. Bunkers don't scare me at all and I think I am more concerned with distance control (ie 15) versus accuracy (ie with my wedges.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ed,

It's an interesting question with different requirements.

Assuming that the approach is from the fairways, The shots into those greens are relatively short and off of awkward lies.

Visually, # 8 at PV is to a narrow target whereas # 15 is to a shallow target.

The consequences, visually, seem more penal at ANGC, more finite, but I'm not so sure that's the case as you can end up in some pretty nasty places where recovery at # 8 may take a few hours.

# 8 comes earlier in the round so the golfer might be more relaxed, although I can't imagine any golfer being relaxed at PV.

Both holes require intense concentration and precision execution.

Both holes require a deft putting touch.

I think any time you walk off either green with a par, you can't be unhappy.

[Tim_Weiman]

Ed,

This very question was addressed on the other thread about Augusta #15 and Pat gave an excellent summary. Personally, I find Augusta the more difficult, but isn't there a legendary Pine Valley story about a Walker Cup player making a 42 on the 8th at PV?

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat,

I guess I was a couple minutes too late!

[ed_getka]

It seems to me that on 15 you have a bailout long and can miss quite wide either way. On 8 I just didn't see any bailout at all. It also seems to me that the stance on 15 is predominantly downhill, while the stance on 8 is a combination of downhill/sidehill  (I should clarify that I am talking about the left green at PV which appears to be the more demanding approach of the two greens). The water on 15 precludes recovery obviously, whereas you will always have another shot on 8. Which fairway has the more pitched downhill lie? It has been many years since I walked Augusta. When I walked PV a couple of years ago the pitch on 8 jumped out at me much more than I remember 15 doing many years ago.

[Patrick_Mucci]

It seems to me that on 15 you have a bailout long and can miss quite wide either way.

That's not true.
Behind 15 it slopes significantly toward the water

And, shots hit long have to be hit back toward the water

On 8 I just didn't see any bailout at all.

I view the bunkers as equivalent to "bail out" areas

It also seems to me that the stance on 15 is predominantly downhill, while the stance on 8 is a combination of downhill/sidehill  (I should clarify that I am talking about the left green at PV which appears to be the more demanding approach of the two greens). The water on 15 precludes recovery obviously, whereas you will always have another shot on 8. Which fairway has the more pitched downhill lie? It has been many years since I walked Augusta. When I walked PV a couple of years ago the pitch on 8 jumped out at me much more than I remember 15 doing many years ago.


I used to tee off of # 8 with a long iron or 3-wood until Jay Sigel told me to hit driver to get to the UPSLOPE.
From the upslope it's a much easier shot.

Both holes are very demanding

[ed_getka]

Clearly you are not a 15 hcp! A 15 is ecstatic to be on terra firma after hitting over water at ANGC even if he is over the green. Assuming the 15 gets his chip/pitch on the green and it stays (a big if), that IS "regulation". If he happens to get in the hole with 2 putts, all the better. it's all a matter of perspective.

How far to you have to drive it at PV to get to the upslope?pp

[Patrick_Mucci]

Clearly you are not a 15 hcp!

I once was.
And, sadly, I'm heading back in that direction

A 15 is ecstatic to be on terra firma after hitting over water at ANGC even if he is over the green.
Assuming the 15 gets his chip/pitch on the green and it stays (a big if), that IS "regulation". If he happens to get in the hole with 2 putts, all the better. it's all a matter of perspective.

I think they're both really daunting shots for a 15.

Chances are the 15 would lay up on # 8 toward the upslope, rather than go for the green in two

How far to you have to drive it at PV to get to the upslope?pp

Probably about 240+ from the regular tee, but, remember, it's very downhill in the DZ, so a 220 tee shot would probably work

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