[Josh Stevens]

Gee lots of abominations today

The old 11th at Bonnie Doon, the first hole on the south paddock used to be a lovely little uphill one shotter.  Simple, but it fitted well.  Was not too long or so high, and so pretty much everyone could get it up there and make it stop with a mid iron at most.  Drop off on one side, but a backstop on the other and the back. 

So I think as long as it isn't more than say 140m, they can work really well

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thomas - re Clevedon. Yes it used to be a lovely golf course, they had 5 short holes, the beautiful drop hole 4th (still there) the quirky 8th (gone) the stunning 11th (gone) the cul de sac 13th a wonderful hole (gone) and the uphill 16th (gone) not a great hole. The club undertook to develop the course using some new land, they did it themselves and its a horror story and money wasted IMO.
Clevedon is the story of how not to do it. The course built all new greens (sensible) and is the same for the first 7 holes (8 is gone) and the old 9th (poor hole) is now 8. They merged the horrible 10th and the great 11th to make an okay hole but it has a badly designed green. 12 is the same but now 10th, the useless practice ground is still useless as it is too small. they then play 5 new holes which are ok and not only is the lovely 13th gone but the great 14th is axed. The world class 15th is still there (now 16) and the not so good 17 and 18 remain.

What they should have done IMO is: play 1-7 as is then play the old 11th; Play 12 as 9th (back to clubhouse) Keep 13 then play the 5 new holes but perhaps only 4 and keep the old 14th and then finish with the same three as now.  So 9 and 10 become the practice ground (right outside the clubhouse) when I told one of the prominent members they just said "wow we never thought of that". Its 25 years old now so hardly anyone remembers how good it used to be.

[Rees Milikin]

Two more abominations would be #4 & #9 at Aiken Golf Club.

[Mike Hendren]

Two words:  Bo Zo.

One of the great joys in the game is to strike the ball well dead on line at the top of the flag on a short uphill one-shotter.   Who among us hasn't done so and picked up his pace climbing the hill in anticipation of the ball's proximity to the hole.  It is exhilarating.  Equally so the devastation when the ball is well short or heaven forbid is over the green.

Blind shots are a nice ingredient in the golf architectural stew.

Bogey

[Mark Pritchett]

#14 at Augusta Country Club is an uphill Par 3 that in my view is well done. 

[jeffwarne]

#14 at Augusta Country Club is an uphill Par 3 that in my view is well done. 

Site of Bobby Jones hole in one
4 iron 141 yards

#4 was a nice uphill par 3 prior to being bastardized by Nicklaus in the name of visibility,
raised the tee dramatically creating quite an eyesore from 15 fairway
It's just a mundane hole now unless you decide to play it with a putter
a little better since the Silva redo

[Kevin Lynch]

Two words:  Bo Zo.

One of the great joys in the game is to strike the ball well dead on line at the top of the flag on a short uphill one-shotter.   Who among us hasn't done so and picked up his pace climbing the hill in anticipation of the ball's proximity to the hole.  It is exhilarating.  Equally so the devastation when the ball is well short or heaven forbid is over the green.

Blind shots are a nice ingredient in the golf architectural stew.

Bogey

+1 - I've always love the "reveal" on uphill approaches (or any blind shot, for that matter)

[Garland Bayley]

Perranporth #4

4    An Low (The Spoon)    3     197





"Semi blind par 3: 200yds  A really good one here...a running draw is the shot." Paul Turner



"Looking back." Paul Turner



"Paul Turner, that slack jawed John Lennon lookalike, is too proud to admit it but he almost aced the 4th hole knocking it to 3 inches from 200 yards with a 1 iron-- where is Lee Trevino?- cause only G-d and Paul Turner can hit that club.. We never saw it though as the hole is semi blind and
Paul figured it had redannish qualities which it did and he hit the softest draw with a 1 iron I'll ever see." Noel Freeman

[Lou_Duran]

"I always liked #8 at Olympic Lake."

Lou -

Are you aware #8 at Olympic Lake was changed 5-6 years ago? Have you played it since?

Yes, I recall Joel's reports on the matter.  My last round at O-Lake was in 2002 with Gib, David Moriarty, and David Schmidt.  It was the night cap to my greatest double header ever with CPC in the morning.  Talk about two very different courses.

Too bad about #8.  I liked the great contrast to #3, and at least a couple clubs shorter than 13 or 15.  I always looked forward to playing the hole.  It followed a short approach on a course with not many of them, though #8 was not what I would call a half par hole (in the handful of times on the course, gauging the grade, location of the hole, and the density of the air always made it difficult, not to say anything about the very imposing clubhouse for background).

I would be interested in the overall membership's evaluation of the new hole, if there is such a thing.

Even with accurate pin sheets or range finders, if I can't see the pin, I have a hard time calibrating my mind's eye.  Perhaps others have similar problems and that's why the consultant advised against uphill 3s.  No better reference than Nicklaus preferred downhill approaches.  

[John Mayhugh]

He might not care for the 6th hole on Kennemer's C nine.

[Thomas Dai]

Perranporth #4

Garland,

Good call. Terrific photos. Well done for re-posting. Sept beckons!

I think the 6th at Perranporth is also uphill. Evil little rascal too (whereas the 4th is an evil big rascal).

atb

[Howard Riefs]

Harrison Hills
Hole #17 – 151 yards
 

 

[jeffwarne]

Two words:  Bo Zo.

One of the great joys in the game is to strike the ball well dead on line at the top of the flag on a short uphill one-shotter.   Who among us hasn't done so and picked up his pace climbing the hill in anticipation of the ball's proximity to the hole.  It is exhilarating.  Equally so the devastation when the ball is well short or heaven forbid is over the green.

Blind shots are a nice ingredient in the golf architectural stew.

Bogey

Bogey,
So true.
Add to that, with a par 3 that you can see some of the flag once it's in, it's not like a blind par 4 or par 5 tee shot where you might inadvertantly hit into a group or wait quite a bit longer than you needed to.

[Adam Lawrence]

He might not care for the 6th hole on Kennemer's C nine.

Man, I would love to see the bunkering on that hole restored to its original form!

[Howard Riefs]

Another Langford...


Kankakee Elks

#5 – 135 yards



#15 – 170 yards

[Thomas Dai]

Adrian,

I liked Clevedon very much too and your additional thoughts inspired me to go through the clubs website hole-by-hole plus look again from googlemap. I think the course routing has changed even more - the former drop-hole 4th with the hedge and road behind, now seems to be the 14th and the drop-shot par-4 from up by the castle dog-legging way down and to the right, now seems to be the 8th.

I'm still trying to recall the old 8th. Did it by any chance play across the 7th green and up the hill on the other side? I also recall a very humpy-bumpy right-to-left hole up by the castle, it was probably the hole before you teed off and hit way down into oblivion! The only other par-4 I can think of where you hit down from such a great height is the 11th at  Herefordshire (Wormsley).

I think that Shirehampton has/had some uphill par-3's too. A pretty short and pretty quirky roller-coaster course as I recall, and not necessarily 'quirky' in the way some courses are mentioned herein.

A bit further south, there was an awkward little very short blind par-3, the 15th, at Okehampton, a lovely low profile course, very tranquil and scenic I recall.


(photos above 15th hole at Okehampton, photos from the clubs website)

atb

[Tim Johnson]

An uphill approach(be it a par 3 or 4 or 5), while some golfers don't like it, offers another thought into our already over analyzing swing thoughts. "How hard do I have to hit it to make sure it doesn't roll back down the hill?" I love the challenge and the fear(for lack of a better description) of selecting the right club to go along with the right swing type.

While the front 9 at Carne doesn't get the love that back does, I love the 7th. Too short and you have it rolling back, too long and you have a nasty downhill slope out the rough to deal with. Gotta match the club with the proper swing, which we have to do on pretty much every shot but I would rather have the comeback shot, behind the green on 7 to a tight pin, rather than having to hit my 3rd from the drop zone after dropping my ball in the water.

Another beauty of the uphill approach, May 05, Carne again, the 11th. Watching one of the guys in my group hit his approach to the front pin and watching over and over again the ball roll back to his feet. Still makes me chuckle. He handled his frustration well.

[John Mayhugh]

Man, I would love to see the bunkering on that hole restored to its original form!

In addition to the bunkering, much more of the green is visible.  I like that look.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian,

I liked Clevedon very much too and your additional thoughts inspired me to go through the clubs website hole-by-hole plus look again from googlemap. I think the course routing has changed even more - the former drop-hole 4th with the hedge and road behind, now seems to be the 14th and the drop-shot par-4 from up by the castle dog-legging way down and to the right, now seems to be the 8th.

I'm still trying to recall the old 8th. Did it by any chance play across the 7th green and up the hill on the other side? I also recall a very humpy-bumpy right-to-left hole up by the castle, it was probably the hole before you teed off and hit way down into oblivion! The only other par-4 I can think of where you hit down from such a great height is the 11th at  Herefordshire (Wormsley).

I think that Shirehampton has/had some uphill par-3's too. A pretty short and pretty quirky roller-coaster course as I recall, and not necessarily 'quirky' in the way some courses are mentioned herein.

A bit further south, there was an awkward little very short blind par-3, the 15th, at Okehampton, a lovely low profile course, very tranquil and scenic I recall.


(photos above 15th hole at Okehampton, photos from the clubs website)

atb

Thomas I guess they switched the nines or the start tee over. You can still see those old holes I mention on Google Earth, the old 8th may have played very close to the back of the 7th green (the old green was like a tee, very squared and had a sideways step in it) the old 5th was squared too. The 8th had a tiny green with a narrow shelf, you just needed to be long and it rolled back on, two bunkers left and right, quite deep, I can remember taking a 5 there, I also remember being five under for five but still finished the front nine +1 in a PGA medal. The humpy bumpy hole was the old 14th it was called Hookers Hell, really quirky...that got the axe.
Shirehampton has six short holes and another par 4 you can drive, it too has been renumbered though the holes are the same, as you would remember the 3rd was the first short hole, it had a horrible right to left green with no pin positions right and a bunker snaked all around the right. I rebuilt this green for them as part of an insurance claim and they wanted it just as it was, so we mapped it and did as told, it was semi blind with a bump between the tee and green, I could have got rid of that for £3000 but they did not have the money, slightly downhill but semi blind. 6th was a great short hole (probably uphill in the strictish sense) you could see the green, it used to be 133 off the bank but with a few back tees its 185 now and very hard. The 8th (now 18th I think) slighty downhill came back to the clubhouse, 5 iron sort of hole, the clubhouse is new now and behind this green. The old 11th was the picture postcard hole 120 yard drop shot, 15 was also downhill hill 6/7 iron 165 or something, no bunkers but a very narrow green with great defence if you miss. 17 was the final short, almost enclosed by trees, tiny green 140 ish. the old 9th was 255 yards very uphill but it was a par 4.

[Carl Johnson]

Carolina GC (Ross 1929) in Charlotte has a par 3, No. 3, that is slightly downhill from the back tee at 237, slightly downhill to level from the next tee, at 201, then uphill from the white tee at about 170, and uphill from the front tee at 120.  So, is this an uphill or a downhill par 3?  Not an easy par hole from any tee, but a very good one, I think.  I play from the white and cannot get enough elevation to hold the green, so running it on or hitting it over are my only options.  The difficulty with rolling it on is that there is a cross bunker in front of the green that must be flown or skirted.

[Keith Grande]

looking forward to the Lion's Mouth par three on Dismal White this summer....

[Jud_T]

Howard,

That's a fun shot but the uphill par 3 that it replaced for safety reasons just perpendicular to your right in the picture looks as if it was even better.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Philadelphia Country Club has a stout uphill par-3... #15.  230 yds. from the back tees. 

[Thomas Dai]

Adrian,

Some close-up work of Clevedon on Googlemap and Bingmap and the old 8th you mention is indeed the uphill par-3 hole I recall. I can also spot the green of the old "Hookers Hell" 14th hole. I recall the old 13th was a very nice par-3 and the previous hole, the old par-5 12th (now the 2nd) being an absolute hell hole for a wee short hitting kid with that huge sleep slope up to the green.

BTW, for those who don't know where Clevedon is, it's on the coast just short of half way between Bristol and Burnham & Berrow GC. Not a links course though, cliff-top/upland in style.

The Castle Hole, now the 8th, is pretty spectatacular. I've tried to find a photo, not easy, these are the best I've found -

Photo from the now 8th tee - 350 yds or so, cambers right-to-left so easy to run out of fairway and go into the left side jungle.

View of the castle (privately owned)

In the top left corner of the arial photo of the the Castle, can just be made out the current 2nd green, on top of a high ridge. The green of the old/NLE 14th "Hookers Hell' can be seen to the right of the Castle. The tee to the 8th hole, the hole seen above, is to the right of the Castle.

The Shirehampton website isn't working very well at the moment so I'll have to wait before analysing the course in greater detail. I do recall a playing partner ball hit his 2nd shot over the cliff towards the Portway (!!) on the 1st hole and lots of par-3's and shortish par-4's. Pretty roller-coaster terrain in places as well with a few cross-over holes. I don't recall the old 3rd, sorry! I do recall though a short par-3 on the front-9 where you hit over a very deep gully (I think the hole you mention as the 6th), and on the back-9 the short cross-over par-3 11th and later on a par-3 with a very narrow raised green followed by a very sharp right-left dog-leg hole. I think these might have been the 15th (as you mention) and 16th.

I also enjoyed playing an upland course not far north east of Bath called Kingsdown. It played on two sides of a road with many stone walls. I particularly remember a dog-leg par-4 on the front-9 that that had a deeply sunken green (a bit like the green on the 11th at Minch' Old)  and a really memorable short par-3 also on the front-9 where you hit over what seemed like a mass of craters and bomb-holes to a tiny wee green closely bordered by a stone wall. I guess Kingsdown must be close to Cumberwell Park, which I haven't visited but have heard lots of nice things about.

Happy days down in the West Country!:)

atb

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