[ChipOat]

Shinnecock plays totally differently off the tee for me in the last 3 years.

Played there today for the first time using the combination of Pro V1 ball and 9 1/2 degree titanium Driver - about 20 prior rounds over the years for comparison.  This equipment duo has given me at least 25 yards extra carry since 2001.  And I'm not getting any younger, either.

6 tee balls (of 14) went through the fairway on doglegs, or found "unreachable" bunkers, where the line I took would have been "aggressive" 3 or more years ago.  Hell, 20 years ago the lines I took off the tee today would have been "no way".

Example: #8 has always been driver/3 wood in the past - 3 iron max from now on unless there's a serious "wind against" from the south.

The slightly pushed/pulled well-hit tee ball goes "too far" off-line nowadays - the trouble is way closer.  I'd have hit more fairways from the back tees than the 6200 yard members' markers.

Other observations:

1) Greens were firm and fast (and perfect) but fairways in front of the greens were less so.  The ground game worked but it wasn't like Scotland or even like National.  Different maintenance meld or different turf??

2) The Open tees on #'s 9 and 18 are WAY back - 75+ yards from members tees and 30 yards from back tees.  Only 1 other hole has a new (separate) tee box for that kind of extension that I could see.

3) The penalty for being 10 yards off the (already narrowed) fairway is much too severe IMO (for regular play - the Open's next year, already).  The "hay" beyond the normal rough on every hole is so thick and so deep that most any ball therein is pretty much unfindable - forget about unhittable (our group lost 8 balls between us within 20-30 feet of the fairway's edge).

4) #11 is the best short par 3 I've ever played.

5) SHGC's Redan (#7) could use a more severe front bunker with a steeper face - not so scary to be there as at NGLA or Somerset Hills.  However, a  right front pin at SHGC is tougher than a similar pin position at the others.

6) The short par 4's (#'s 8 and 15) would be improved with smaller, more penal green complexes IMO a la PVGC #8 or Riviera #10.

7) I still give the edge to Pine Valley, but Shinnecock deserves every vote it gets for best course on the planet.

[Gary_Smith]

chipoat,

What other hole besides 9 and 18 has a new tee box for the Open next year? Thanks.

[Joel_Stewart]

I stopped by Shinnecock on Friday to take a look.  The course is in the best condition I have ever seen.

I believe new tees have been added to #3 and #4 as well.  

Chip: Even with new equipment, I think Shinny is harder than Pine Valley, maybe the hardest course in the world?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shivas,

Was # 5 lengthened ?

[James Edwards]

Joel,

I haven't played all of the courses in the world ()  but I must say, SH was the toughest golf course off the tee I have ever played.  We played it on the same day as NGLA, but Shinnecock was a greater challenge.  We started on 14 with the superintendent playing with us, and the potential problems are screaming at you - very loudly! If you don't hit the right shape, it doesn't matter how long you are.

On the same trip, we went to CCBrookline, Oakmont, PV, Sawgrass, Kiawah, but Shinnecock was the course that stole the show in almost every criteria.

James

[ChipOat]

Gary Smith:

#16 (par 5).  There are other "Open only" tee boxes but I believe they were there in 1995.

Joel Stewart:

You were in the neighborhood without letting me know???

[Matt_Ward]

Joel S:

With all due respect -- the hardest course one can play has to be The Ocean Course at Kiawah! It is the Darth Vader of courses!

Shinnecock Hills transforms and goes beyond just difficulty -- it is simply America's best course IMHO.

chipoat:

Read your post quite carefully but have to ask this -- just because on certain holes you were longer than in the past did the added "advantage" of distance make the holes play any bit easier?

Also -- can narrowing the fairways too much at SH cause the fundamental character of the course to be altered too drastically -- I'd hate to see SH be reduced to simply having the world's best use 3-metal or long irons because the risk at hitting driver is just not worth it if the fairways become single lane highways. One Carnoustie was bad enough and I would seriously hate to see SH be morphed into some sort of Frankenstein when it's pedigree by Flynn deserves nothing less than what was achieved with the '86 and '95 Opens.

[Jim_Michaels]

Matt,

I have played several golden age designs recently. I, too, am not getting younger but have had the same experience that the teeth are getting taken out of these courses. There is no question that I am hitting 2-3 clubs less into greens than two years ago. I have to say that some of the fun is taken out of that by my knowledge that hard work on my part had absolutely nothing to do with it!

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

I hear what you're saying but consider this -- added length can sometimes mean "new" issues to face. Sometimes going too far can make for more demanding angles or require different clubs from more vexing positions unless you happen to be in the prime spot. It's not an automatic as many might believe when you're playing such a high quality layout like SH.

My concern, as expressed in my post to chipoat, was that SH be morphed into Frankenstein-itis -- the layout by Flynn needs just a gentle tweaking to handle the world's best -- I don't want to see SH become the poster child for wrecked classics since the ingrained greatness of SH is already there --it doesn't need to be switched into Carnoustie for one week in '04!

[Jim_Michaels]

...and neither did Carnoustie!

[Adam_Messix]

According to a member that I talked to this week, it has rained so much that they couldn't get anything into the fescue to chop it and therefore it has gotten a bit out of control.  The major complaint from members is that play has gotten real slow out there because of the depth of the fescue.  

Although I won't know this until I play there in late September, it appears as if the USGA only tweaked the course with a couple of new tees, most notably at the 4th.  It sounds to me like they showed some restraint, as there is plenty of room to lengthen Shinnecock.  

[ChipOat]

Matt Ward:

1) The extra distance does make the course play easier once club selection "other than driver" is determined.  Until then (1 or 2 rounds), the added distance goes "too far" and is actually an impediment.  That was the initial point of my original post.

2) Narrowed fairways themselves don't fundamentally alter Shinnecock so much as the ultra-deep hay being so close to the fairways' edge.  The first cut of rough, and even the primary cut, isn't all that severe - there just isn't enough of it.  In fact, you could accurately say that Shinnecock has "narrowed the rough" too much IMO.

[Matt_Ward]

chipoast:

I understand your comments but you missed my point.

Let the boys play when they get to Shinnecock. Don't create a 2004 version of Franekstein in whicht he big boys HAVE to clubdown in order to avoid the hay. Must we have another Carnoustie because some blue bloods are concerned about the four-round total.

Last I check SH did very well in the manner it was presented in '86 and '95. Why the desire to rush to the bowling alley concept. When the wind and weather collide together any number of things can happen -- just ask Greg Norman when he could only get one birdie over the final 36 holes in '95!

The issue I have with any "strengthening" of SH is that the course may need a few yards tacked on a few holes (i.e. the 5th is a great example) but the sheer qualities of the layout speak so loud and clear IMHO.

They used to say this about Ronald Reagan -- "let Reagan be Reagan." The same applies to SH IMHO -- "let Shinnecock be Shinnecock." The person who wins will clearly have demonstrated his credentials on a superb Flynn layout that doesn't need to be bastardized in order to accomplish some scoring objective.

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