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Joel_Stewart

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Physical Courses
« on: July 21, 2003, 02:50:14 PM »
Tom Watson had the following quote this morning about Royal St. George.

''I always fight my swing when I play this golf course,'' he said. ''I come off this golf course feeling I can't play a lick. Always do. It just beats me to death. It's pretty much the only one that does that to me.

I haven't played RSG but Shinnecock is the most physical course I have played.  Any others?
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2003, 04:17:40 PM »
Joel-

I know you play the OC Lake on a regular basis. As someone who has played there half-a-dozen times a year for the past 20 years, I would submit the Lake for your list because of:

1) The sloping contour of the property site and the sloping fairways that produce so many side hill lies.
2) The swales that seem to run in front of so many of the greens (#2, #6, #9, #12, #14, #17, etc.) which make run-up shots difficult and often lead to pitches off downhill lies to uphill greens.
3) The uphill walk from #17 tee to #18 green and then to the clubhouse. After the course has beaten you up emotionally, it exhausts you physically!
4) Last but not least, the trees, even though there are a few less than there used to be.

I think the "physical" character of the Lake is perhaps its most distinctive feature.

DT




 
 
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2003, 04:27:27 PM »
The Ocean Couse at Kiawah beats me up. Length and wind comination makes for a exhausting round of golf there.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Steve Lapper

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Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2003, 04:30:33 PM »
Joel,

 Good topic! I've always thought that a few courses out there really physically tax a player and often force them out of rythym, or even worse, out of their minds...

Courses that fit that monicker (and have done that to me from time to time):

Carnoustie (almost anytime)
Royal County Down (in it's typical nasty weather form)
Butler National
Medinah #3 (in the Chicago humid heat)
Bethpage Black (in the NY humid heat)
Southern Hills (ditto)
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The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Andy

Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2003, 04:41:34 PM »
Here are a few that have beaten me up in good/bad weather, wind/no wind, and just make me feel like I have been to war:

Carnoustie
PGA West Stadium
Oakland Hills
Butler National
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2003, 04:51:06 PM »
Dave Tepper:
That is funny, I didn't even consider Olympic.  Its just a walk in the park for me.  Same with Pine Valley now that I have played it a number of times.

I'll add Winged Foot and agree with others that Carnoustie was very physical.
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Mike Benham

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Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2003, 06:59:40 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on July 21, 2003, 04:51:06 PM
Dave Tepper:
That is funny, I didn't even consider Olympic.  

I'll 2nd David's inclusion of O Lake although the recent conditioning means that you don't have to hit all those long irons approaches ...

I nominate Spyglass ... love it or hate it, by the end of the round, coming out of the darkness of the trees, you are dragging just a little bit ...

Bayonnet (old Fort Ord) is another one ... enough elevation changes, narrow fairways, length  and changing weather conditions ...
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"... and I liked the guy ..."

Andy

Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2003, 07:08:24 PM »
I will agree with you on Spy...the longest, normally dampest, 6800 yards in golf history.  9 and 18 alone are quite a haul, normally a long iron hit above the pin, followed by the hardest two putt in golf(or one of the hardest)...Spyglass should be in the Top 10 Physicals for sure...
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Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2003, 10:04:41 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on July 21, 2003, 04:51:06 PM
Dave Tepper:
That is funny, I didn't even consider Olympic.  Its just a walk in the park for me.  Same with Pine Valley now that I have played it a number of times.

I'll add Winged Foot and agree with others that Carnoustie was very physical.

That's funny too as I've played and looped at Winged Foot over 60+ times and never felt the same as I did at some of the other (never felt that way either about Olympic)...must be brutality is in the head of the oppressed!
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The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Texas_Three_Putt

Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2003, 06:25:07 PM »
Quote from: Andy Zedman on July 21, 2003, 07:08:24 PM
I will agree with you on Spy...the longest, normally dampest, 6800 yards in golf history.  9 and 18 alone are quite a haul, normally a long iron hit above the pin, followed by the hardest two putt in golf(or one of the hardest)...Spyglass should be in the Top 10 Physicals for sure...
I agree about Spyglass but Pasatiempo wears me out more.
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Matt_Ward

Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2003, 07:19:09 PM »
Slapper:

Good point on WF.

The West reminds me of the dialogue you heard on "Star Trek" about the aliens called The Romulans. As Mr. Chekov would say -- they do not take captivvvves captaaaain!

The West is simply relentless and with the tree removal should be rated even higher than it is.
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Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2003, 07:35:08 PM »
by the end of my round at stonewall, i feel beat up, both physically and mentally.  maybe it has something to do with the terrain, but i think more  it has to do with the relentless nature of having to hit good shot after good shot or be punished,  in order to play well there.  

having said that stonewall only ranks behind Merion and Lancaster as my fav. philly courses(have not played PV)
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You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

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A_Clay_Man

Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2003, 09:06:24 AM »
In it's original config I feel a major part of the defense of Pinon Hills is that starting on 15 you really have some uphill treks. Both within the holes and to get them. Now they are not unreasonable but they will test your medal. (or is it metal)?

Re Spy: The walk up to the 16th tee is the most brutal on that course. To get to the 18th tee is next, following closely behind by the walk up to 13. 6, 8 and 9 are relatively easy with 8 being the steepest. But, ones mind is rarely on such aspects because they have other fish to fry.

Also, The Preserve was a horrible walk, especially up to #2 tee.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2003, 09:11:36 AM by A_Clay_Man »
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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:Physical Courses
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2003, 08:42:33 PM »
Quote from: JHancock on July 21, 2003, 04:27:27 PM
The Ocean Couse at Kiawah beats me up. Length and wind comination makes for a exhausting round of golf there.

Joe

In the USGA coffee-table book, "Golf -- The Greatest Game," there is a chapter entitled "The Clubhouse" by Curt Sampson.  He goes on and describes the great clubhouses of the game including The Country Club, Medinah, Shinnecock, Seminole, et. al.  What's interesting is his last paragraph as he describes how The Ocean Course beats him up (and the last time I played with him there he shot a 76 from the golds -- occassionally heading to the far back tees for fun -- on a 25mph wind day):

"My ideal clubhouse would combine San Francisco Golf Club with The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island, South Carolina.  Among the endearing qualities at SFGC are its wonderfully dowdy locker room (imagine it is 1930 again and you're at the local Y); the memberships abject love for the traditional game of golf (former USGA presidents Grant Spacth and Sandy Tatum belong to the club, and twenty-two members belong to the R&A); and its masterpiece of a golf course.  The Ocean Course, site fo the 1991 Ryder Cup, is the toughest track in the world.  After a round there from the back tees on a windy day, I imagine my brain resembled the barrel of live eels I once saw outside a restaurant in Korea.  But the clubhouse restored my  sanity.  No holes are visible from the picture windows, just an unobstructed look at the practice putting green, and beyond it a flat green plain, sand dunes, and the soothing, hypnotic, breaking waves on the beach.  After the contemplation of this scene and several malt beverages, I was myself again."
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