[Brett Hochstein]

My guess for a number of reasons: probably not.

What got me to this point of actually posting was watching the coverage of the tournament yesterday, particularly that of the 4th hole.  Maybe this hole has been talked a lot about before, but the bunkering, slope, and length of the tee shot seem to beg (at least for a moderate hitter, and maybe a big hitter back when the course opened) for landing the ball just over the right bunker short of the green and using the slope to work it left toward the hole. The stickiness and rigidity of kikuyu however makes skirting that bunker a play that gets left well short of the green, unless you really hit a low screamer and get lucky.

Yes, this issue is common with a lot of modern parkland courses where the ground has gotten much softer compared to the golden age days sans irrigation (those Ross "visual deception" bunkers were very much in play with firm turf), but I'm asking specifically about Riviera and kikuyu, which I believe is from Australia or South Africa and is very invasive and on something called the Federal Noxious Weed List.

Riviera is outstanding, and kikuyu can actually make for strategic golf in its own right by risking the short side of the green, but it always amazes me how much turf can impact the architecture. 

[Tom_Doak]

It wasn't always kikuyu.  They decided to make the transition in the fifties or sixties, I think, when they got tired of fighting it.  I have the Riviera club history at the office, I'll try to remember to look it up there.

[Pete Lavallee]

Brett,

My understanding is that Riviera did import Kikuyu from South Africa for their polo field; it spred from there to the golf course. It has also spred to almost every municipal course in So Cal from San Diego to Santa Barbara; I often wonder if it all started from Riviera? Once it gets a foothold, it's really hard to stop the invasion. Private Clubs seem to have the resourses to maintain their bermuda strands. There certainly are varying conditions with Kikuyu; when given a lot of water it does become too lush to allow the ball to bounce. It can however be maintained to allow for the ball to bounce; I've seen it in South Africa. At Milnerton, a links course in Capetown they provide just enough water to keep the grass alive and you can easily bounce the ball onto greens there. They also have the benefit of a strong local wind which helps to desicate the grass. Of course you don't get a deep green color throughout, something a prestigious course like Riviera would never put up with.

Royal Cape GC, also in Capetown, has perhaps the best Kikuyu surface I've played off; obviously they know how to manage it there. For a parkland course it works well as a turf choice. I doubt the bump and run would be your first choice there though.

For the 2008 US Open Torrey Pines went to great lengths to rid their fairways of the mixture of cool season grasses to try and make them 100% Kikuyu. They turned off the water for the entire summer of 2007 and restricted carts to the cart path for over 6 months; fairways were bone dry and light brown. The result was a very super tight, pure Kikuyu surface that was a joy to stike shots off. Regular watering techniques and full access to golf carts have undone all that preperation though.

I wonder if any golf course has intentionally planted with Kikuyu, or has it always invaded some other grass species?
  

[John Kavanaugh]

I have yet to meet a member of Riviera that doesn't love kikuyu as a playing surface. I love it off the club, so sorry if it doesn't play well in the papers.

[Greg Chambers]

Kuk is a great turf. Perfectly adapted to SoCal. Maintained well it's a great surface. Too many haters...

[Bill_McBride]

It's probably the worst grass there is for green surrounds and collars.  My experience is all at LaCumbre in Santa Barbara which is wall to wall.  I can't tell you how frustrating it is to hit a pitch that lands a foot short of the putting surface and stays there, as if grabbed by Velcro.  The bump and run is a distant memory.  The greens are kept firm at LaCumbre, so a pitch that lands just short will grab, while one that lands just on the green may run well past.  It's a short game nightmare.  

Across town at The Valley Club, there is a crew of workers who continually scrutinize the fairways looking for and eradicating kikuyu as they find it.  As a result, the short game is a lot more varied and interesting at The Valley Club.  

[Brett Hochstein]

Thanks for the responses, especially Pete.  

The backstory sounds right, and I think I might have heard something mentioned about it in the broadcast with the horsetrack.  This is just what happens sometimes with species from another continent; they find a like niche with no natural defense from the existing species.  My guess is that even trying to fight kikuyu holistically through competitive advantage would be about impossible in LA, since it seems to favor the hot summer-dry climate.  Even courses in Northern California just eradicate it in order to deal with it.

It's good to know that you can brown out kikuyu and make it a fast surface.  Some grasses die off before given that chance.  Given that kikuyu isn't really all that green in the first place, I think that would just be more incentive to lean it out, unless of course traffic becomes an issue in killing it off, which Pete makes sound pretty common if carts are involved.

So what was Riviera originally?  Bermuda, I presume. But what about the greens?  Could they get bents growing down there?  I can't recall, but I don't believe there were any workable strains of bermuda for putting at that time.  

Another question--are there some ways in which kikuyu makes Riviera better than other standard surfs?  I have my answer, let's see what others say.

[Yancey_Beamer]

In southern California most courses eradicate kikuyu by cutting out any areas of growth and removing it.
They are doing this on a day to day basis.Also anyone who played a kikuyu course is to clean their shoes fully
and not carry the kikuyu to another course.
Riviera had a major problem in that the polo field was above the golf course which is down in an arroyo and 
grass was easily transferred to the golf course.

[Brett Morris]

The USDA imported kikuyu in 1915 which was evaluated the following year in California in an attempt to reduce erosion on hillsides and river banks.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

The USDA imported kikuyu in 1915 which was evaluated the following year in California in an attempt to reduce erosion on hillsides and river banks.

A popular misconception is that it was imported for the polo fields.  Not true.  It was for erosion control on the slopes.  Little did anyone know how it spread.  A good grass for golf and especially public courses in SoCal, but not for chipping around the greens.  Having said that it has been a good defender of par for today's Tour pros.

[Tom_Doak]

I was thinking they should re-grass the approaches to something different, as Royal Melbourne did, so that the short game shots played like they were intended to.  But, I presume the kikuyu would infest those areas in short order.

How do they keep it out of the greens?

[Brett Hochstein]

I was thinking they should re-grass the approaches to something different, as Royal Melbourne did, so that the short game shots played like they were intended to.  But, I presume the kikuyu would infest those areas in short order.

How do they keep it out of the greens?

Is it just a product of lower mowing height?  I don't know the exact tolerances of kikuyu, which is one reason I started this thread, but perhaps it can't survive a low height of cut?  The other option is eradicating and fumigating as previously stated, which to me is more of a last resort methodology.

Is RM mostly kikuyu? It sure didn't seem to play like it from watching the last Presidents Cup, so yeah I believe that about the work to the approaches. Looked great.

[Tom_Doak]

Is RM mostly kikuyu? It sure didn't seem to play like it from watching the last Presidents Cup, so yeah I believe that about the work to the approaches. Looked great.

Heaven forbid!  Royal Melbourne's fairways used to be common bermuda with poa annua.  They re-grassed them a couple of years ago to Legend couchgrass, which doesn't let the ball run as much in the fairways, because so many of the fairways are on hills.  But then they used fescue on the approaches from 30-40 yards in and around the greens.

Australian courses do see some kikuyu, but they fight it like most other California courses do.  I just don't know if you could fight it in the approaches if you had it all over the fairways.

[Brett Morris]

Riviera keep the kikuyu out of the greens by hand edging which is a fairly popular, and so far effective, method now in controlling encroachment in greens of certain turf varieties.  RM put in a fescue buffer as you can spray bermuda out if it, and at out course we hand edge our zoysia surrounds to keep them out of the Champion.

Here's a close up of the edging at Riviera.

[Brett Hochstein]

Is RM mostly kikuyu? It sure didn't seem to play like it from watching the last Presidents Cup, so yeah I believe that about the work to the approaches. Looked great.

Heaven forbid!  Royal Melbourne's fairways used to be common bermuda with poa annua.  They re-grassed them a couple of years ago to Legend couchgrass, which doesn't let the ball run as much in the fairways, because so many of the fairways are on hills.  But then they used fescue on the approaches from 30-40 yards in and around the greens.

Australian courses do see some kikuyu, but they fight it like most other California courses do.  I just don't know if you could fight it in the approaches if you had it all over the fairways.

I actually thought maybe RM might just be far enough south to sustain fescue--the texture and color of the turf seems to look like it in pictures/video of the green surrounds, particularly the approaches.  I've heard it gets pretty hot there too though, which makes sense with bermuda.  I think I just need to get down there and see for myself.

No, I don't think you could fight kikuyu in the approaches or anywhere at Riviera.  There are cases where you can fight a turf through maintenance practice over time (e.g. you could change the fairways at say Crystal Downs from bent to fescue without a single season rip up; it would just take a patience and some cosmetic tolerance), but from what I hear about kikuyu, it seems like it would have every natural competitive advantage in the SoCal niche and thus require totally stripping the place and starting over, still with no real long term guarantees.  I can't be sure of that though--just my guess.  Warm season turf guys, please prove me wrong.

[Brett Hochstein]

Riviera keep the kikuyu out of the greens by hand edging which is a fairly popular, and so far effective, method now in controlling encroachment in greens of certain turf varieties.  RM put in a fescue buffer as you can spray bermuda out if it, and at out course we hand edge our zoysia surrounds to keep them out of the Champion.

Here's a close up of the edging at Riviera.

Never heard of this before, but it makes sense.  How deep is the edging, and how often does it have to be done?

[Josh Stevens]

Kyk is the grass du jour on probably 95% of Australian courses, as it is just so tough and easy to maintain in dry conditions.  But it is regarded as a second rate grass for top level golf and conspicuous by its absence from our elite courses, with the exception of the lakes in Sydney.  Bonnie Doon was kyk but is being converted as part of the new work back to couch - I am told a lot of soil had to be removed.

At my shop we have littel bamboo sticks about the place for members to carry.  If we see a sprig of kyk that has perhaps blown over the fence or been walked in, and taken hold, then we put the stick in it and the ground staff will come out and destroy it.  It is a constant battle.

It can actually be made into a decent surface on fairways if kept very lean, but still will always have a slight cushion feel and thus public golfers love it as they can get under the ball.  THere is a yound lad of some considerable talent in my town that is a member at a kyk course, but in the process of moving across to a couch track as his coach feels he will never develop properly playing on kyk -too many bad habits will develop from the fairways and he will not develop the skills required to deal with a harder surface around the greens.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Riviera keep the kikuyu out of the greens by hand edging which is a fairly popular, and so far effective, method now in controlling encroachment in greens of certain turf varieties.  RM put in a fescue buffer as you can spray bermuda out if it, and at out course we hand edge our zoysia surrounds to keep them out of the Champion.

Here's a close up of the edging at Riviera.

We do the same thing here at Pine Tree. We edge our tees and approaches, thus minimizing the chance for 419 or common bermudagrass from jumping over. We edge ever 2-3 weeks, depending on the time of year, about 1" deep.

[Ian Larson]

At Riviera we obviously embraced the Kyk. Down the street at LACC we fought it like hell. It was constant spot spraying which didn't work all that well. I forget the herbicides we used but the Kyk would laugh at it most times because of the rates used to protect the common Bermuda.

After getting frustrated I remember going around and pulling up long runners in a Kyk cluster and rubbing straight concentrated RoundUp on it thinking it would translocate throughout the cluster. It worked, the Bermuda was untouched and the Kyk would peeter out, but it was a lot of meticulous hand work.

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