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Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Am I the only one who thinks that the Merion work is a travesty?
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2013, 02:31:46 PM »
Leaving this here as I thought it related to this conversation:

“Now that the ball-makers have successfully ruined most of our leading courses, it remains for the golf architects to so design the greens that they shall be both difficult of access and that the putting shall demand care and skill in judging slopes and undulations”.

- W. Herbert Fowler





"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Am I the only one who thinks that the Merion work is a travesty?
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »
Sven,

I think Fowler would be disheartened to see his "slopes and undulations" being evened out and eliminated.

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Am I the only one who thinks that the Merion work is a travesty?
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2013, 08:41:05 PM »
Dan Hermann:

Rolling back the ball is a good idea (Nicklaus has been on that for 30 years if anyone but me remembers his Cayman Ball), but it will do nothing about Golden Era greens that have become unputtable.  For that, those greens need to be "restored" to the speed for which they were designed (never happen) or............well, you know.

Patrick:

Too many good questions; not enough time right now; please stand by.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Am I the only one who thinks that the Merion work is a travesty?
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2013, 10:40:23 PM »
Chipoat,

At the core, we can never forget that clubs are comprised of diverse factions in terms of the composition of the membership.

Some members want to host majors, others don't.

Some want to alter the course, others want it left intact.

Some want high rough, some want no rough.

Some want super fast greens, others want normal speeds.

As clubs age, they tend to move further away from their core values, even great old clubs like Merion, Winged Foot and other iconic clubs have experienced this seismic shift as a new breed of member joins and the older members with well established roots leave.

There's no monolithic theme to the exclusion of others.

I wonder, if no major tournaments had/will be held at Merion if any of the greens would have been altered.

Would the membership have been content with the greens as they were ?

Would the greens have attained the higher Stimp speeds ?

I recognize that clubs and memberships don't live in a vacuum.
They see and play other courses that have increased green speeds, they see and play other courses that have had their greens altered and their tees lengthened.

And, they watch the PGA tour and the courses played every week on TV.

I could be off base, but I think the Majors have a great deal of influence over the direction that Merion takes.
Ditto Baltusrol and others

Once you take the King's schilling, you have to do the King's bidding.

So, I understand your capitulation on some of the issues we've discussed.

You can only swim against the current for so long

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Am I the only one who thinks that the Merion work is a travesty?
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2013, 10:02:02 AM »
Ed B.

OF COURSE there should be a "speed limit"!  I'm not qualified to say what is should be but, as Justice Potter Stewart said about pornography, "I know it when I see it."

Patrick,

You are creating even more issues to consider and answer; very busy right now; please stand by (some more).

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