[Brent Hutto]

In September of this year I had a shortish golf holiday in the Manchester-Ganton-Notts triangle, so to speak. One-day visits to Reddish Vale and Notts golf clubs at the invitation of my fellow GCA forum-ites and a three-day stay at Ganton Golf Club playing mostly solo rounds, morning and afternoon each day.

After a couple months' reflection on the trip, I find that a three-day immersion in a single golf course is absolutely the best way to use my limited playing time on a 7-day or shorter trip. I've known for a while that minimizing "windshield time" leads to more enjoyment but now I've found the proper structure for maximum enjoyment.

Obviously an 18-handicapper is not going to become an "expert" on any golf course in six rounds. But compared to the single rounds or even the isolated 36-hole days I've spent at many other courses, my memories of Ganton are more akin to the way I think of my home course than just another place I saw on vacation once. On many holes I have a sort of mental map of various shots that work out well or poorly, a sense of how various breezes affect the best line of play and a truer sense of which holes represent greater or smaller challenges to my own game, day in and day out. It's a pretty cool experience and some great memories.

So that's my new model for golf vacation travel. None of which is to sell short the fun factor of getting to play with Duncan and Mark at Reddish Vale or with James and two other fellows at Notts. Lord knows I wouldn't trade anything for the chance to play with my UK GCA friends on the rare occasions I'm on the correct side of the Atlantic. But there's no way I would have had a better trip by playing three different courses instead of three two-round "repeats" at Ganton.

[Rich Goodale]

Welcome to the Church of Extended Familiarity, brother Hutto.

[Mark Pearce]

Very difficult to think of a much better course to spend three days at than Ganton.  Still the best inland course I have played, I think.

[Brent Hutto]

Ganton does reward that sort of immersion about as well as any course could do. I'm trying to think of comparable quality inland courses from my limited experience in the UK. The ones that comes to mind are Walton Heath and Notts, arguably in the same stratum.

I really enjoyed Alwoodley, again with the advantage of playing it for two days during the Buda event. Probably not quite the championship venue that Ganton represents but mighty nice for my game. Walton Heath probably should a "comparable" for Ganton and has the advantage of 36 holes which I'm sure is an awesome benefit if one were a member there.

But now I must come clean and say that Notts might be, by the slimmest of margins, my favorite in a comparison between itself and Ganton. Shot for shot, hole for hole I'd have a hard time saying one or the other is clearly better. I'll give an edge to Ganton for variety of hole lengths and difficulties (darned near idea in that regard) and for walkability. The advantages of Notts are its setting, which is simply gorgeous, and the bolder up and downs of the terrain.

I told my wife when I returned home that to the extent you love trees and to the extent you love hills, Notts would have a big advantage over Ganton in my estimation. To the extent you want your golf rather unadorned and more like an "inland links", it would be hard to find a course preferable to Ganton. I guess that does make me a tree-lover to a certain extent then.

[John Mayhugh]

Multiple days at the same course is great and sure increases your familiarity.  That's one thing that made Buda at Silloth really fun, but then every other Buda has been wonderful as well.  I'm cursed with the desire to see a large variety of courses, and as a result usually spend one day at each place.  I would love to have spent three days at St. Enodoc earlier this year, for example, but then I wouldn't have visited Westward Ho! & Saunton, and that would have been a shame.

[Josh Tarble]

As someone who is really just starting to travel fairly seriously to play at different courses, this is something I always question.  Do I want to see more courses or become more familiar with fewer courses?

The easy answer is to stay longer and do both, but unfortunately not practical. 

[Brent Hutto]

For me it depends somewhat on solo versus group travel.

I've done mostly solo trips and trips with groups of eight golfers or a whole Buda crew. And I've done hit-and-run itineraries (although not extremely so) and stay-put itineraries.

In a larger group (more than two or three golfers) for think staying put is a huge plus. Not necessarily for a whole week but for more than a night or two at a stretch. The group outings I've been part of have tended to do this and I would not have cared to deal with more than one carload of people moving from place to place.

On solo trips it's fun either way. I'm now leaning toward the stay put but for all I know my next trip may be a move-around one. You have a lot of flexibility as a solo.

If you ever get a chance to participate in one of the Buda trips it works well to do a little of both. Plan on three days with the main event then either before or after do another three days or so solo. Like two vacations in one!

[Sean_A]

Not being quite the wing nut you lot are, I need more than one golf course to hang about for three or so days.  Maybe two courses and some good social life would do the trick, but solo 36 holes a day at Ganton (?) for three days does not sound appealing.  However, live and let live is a motto a truly live by. 

Ciao

[Brent Hutto]

Sean,

It forms a pleasant blur by about the fourth round, where each shot you hit sort of merges into the memory of the other times you played the same hole. The most important thing (for me) is to fight the tendency to rush around, while playing solo. I try to adopt a steady and rather plodding pace, at Ganton that worked out to about a 2:50-ish time for each round. Quick enough to keep a good flow going but slow enough to daydream a bit, too.

I will say by the afternoon of the third day (my sixth and final round) when one of the members offered to join up with me at the first tee I was quite ready for the company. And having a round with Duncan and Mark the day before Ganton and the round in James's invitation day afterward made for the best of both worlds.

[Jason Topp]

Overall, I believe I have enjoyed trips focused on one or two courses more than those that were whirlwinds.   

[Tim_Weiman]

Brent,

Over the years I have found not many Americans would even consider traveling across the pond to play and concentrate on just one course. One influential factor is that for many this might be their first and only trip to the UK/Scotland/Ireland. So, they want to hustle around and see as many famous courses as they can.

Truthfully, that is how is was for me at first. But, there was one exception: because my colleagues at British Petroleum were fine with Scotland but uncomfortable with Ireland, I went by myself for a full week to Ballybunion and have forever cherished the experience. You are absolutely right. Concentrating on one venue can be much more rewarding than running around trying to see everything you can.

Perspective on this issue is gained by thinking about Australia rather than the UK/Ireland. I have been to the latter many times, but to Australia only twice. So, with Australia I feel like I am missing a lot by concentrating in Melbourne and Tasmania. For example, it pains me to have not seen New South Wales.

Appreciating golf architecture takes - at a minimum - time, money and the willingness to travel worldwide as well as some social skills, I think.

But, life is short and it is hard to do everything and you have to balance quality and quantity. Hanging out at one venue provides the quality. Running around provides the quantity.

[Tom_Doak]

Brent:

There is no doubt that you'll learn a lot more from a good course if you can play it 2-5 times than if you only play once and move on. 

As Tim says, there's a balance to be found.  But I think it's good of you to point out that the balance for most people in recent years has been skewed by trying to see and "rate" as many courses as they can.  Everyone needs to slow down!  There's no way everyone has time to spend three days on every course worthy of it, but would it hurt for them to do it just ONCE next year, to see what they are missing?

[Incidentally, the whole purpose of my Renaissance Cup gathering was to get people to stay at our new courses and play them 2-3 times, so they could see them with different hole locations and different conditions.  And I do think that approach has a lot to do with the level of acclaim our courses have received ... much more than the "social effect" of becoming friendly with the architect(s) in the process.

[Duncan Cheslett]

It was great to meet you Brent, and hopefully get your trip off to a flying start.

I have to agree with you on your premise. I spent a full week earlier this year on a family holiday in Tenby and played the course there at least once every day - normally between 6 and 9am so that I could fulfil my other duties for the rest of the day.

I loved getting to know a course really well; it soon felt like home. Like you however, I was glad of some company before long. My favourite rounds of the trip were beating a fellow holidaymaker 4&3 despite him playing off 12 against my 18 - he refused to allow me any shots - and on the final day with a member who was able to fill me in on a lot of the historical details of the club and course.

I am blessed with a host of truly great courses within a couple of hours drive of my home. Rather than racing through the list at breakneck speed I rather think I shall take my time and get to know them one at a time.

[Tommy Williamsen]

When I travel with my wife or friends I do enjoy playing different courses for the trip.  But I also travel alone periodically.  When I do I enjoy being at one place, meet people, take part in the life of the club, and sleep in the same bed each night.

[Scott Warren]

Brent,

I agree that an extended stay playing one course can be fantastic. The annoyance in the UK where pin positions are often not changed as frequently is if you spend a few consecutive days somewhere and get the one pin position.

[Brent Hutto]

Scott,

That was a case at Ganton. I was there on a Wednesday/Thursday/Friday and it was the same hole locations each day, although for some reason I think one hole had been moved on Friday which is odd.

But I get get a gradual anti-clockwise movement of the wind over the three days. Wednesday morning there was only a slight breeze but it picked up as my first round was finishing up. Then it was fairly substantial the remaining 2-1/2 day but gradually moved through almost 90 degrees. So that provided some variety in play.

Then again playing by myself I also took the opportunity to hang around a few greens here and there, putting to interesting looking corners of the green. I will say having one day with different pins would have been nice.

[James Boon]

Brent,

Glad to hear how much you enjoyed Notts! I'm actually playing Ganton for the first time next week, but for you to say you preferred Notts after immersing yourself in Ganton is good to hear. 

I've had several get togethers with GCAers where we have spent several days playing the same course, especially for Buda, and when I was younger had an annual trip to Brora which meant 3 or 4 days of none stop golf there with only the occasional side trip to Golspie or Dornoch. This level of immersion is wonderful, and I obviously now feel I know a lot more about such courses. However I do mix it up and often only make flying visits to courses for just the one round, especially when on holiday with my wife, so can see how both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages...

Brent,

I agree that an extended stay playing one course can be fantastic. The annoyance in the UK where pin positions are often not changed as frequently is if you spend a few consecutive days somewhere and get the one pin position.

Scott,

This years Buda was as you know at Silloth, and at one point I was thinking of only attending a couple of days as its was all due to be over the same course. However we got pretty lucky as during the 3 days there we had a couple of different wind directions, varied weather and a fresh set of hole locations on the Thursday I seem to recall? This variety certainly opened everyone's eyes to how marvelous the course is. Add to that the mix of 2 rounds foursomes, 2 rounds fourballs and a round of singles, was all just perfect.

I admire Brent for what he did at Ganton, however I suspect that 3 days of 36 each at the same course, with lets say the same weather and same hole locations, may start to drag a little towards the end...

Cheers,

James

[Tom_Doak]

Brent,

I agree that an extended stay playing one course can be fantastic. The annoyance in the UK where pin positions are often not changed as frequently is if you spend a few consecutive days somewhere and get the one pin position.

I asked Don Mahaffey when we played Wolf Point how he handled this ... obviously, it does not get much traffic, so changing cups every day would do more wear and tear on the greens than the players do.

He said he changed six holes every day.  I think that's the perfect solution ... you never quite play the same course from one day to the next, but you know where a lot of the holes are.  I wish more clubs would take the same approach.

[Rich Goodale]

Let's get real here, buckaroos!  Even if there is no change in pin position, and no change in wind or temperature and no change in your physical or mental condition, none of the posters here (including me, and the majority of posters on this thread with whom I have actually golfed my ball) will hit their drive, or their second shot, or their recovery shot or their first or second putts to and from the same place in any two consecutive rounds.  That is nearly infinite variety with any two plays over the "same" course.  Add in the realities of changes in temperature and wind speed and direction and physical and mental status, and the variety increasingly approaches infinity.  Adding new pin positions every day is preferable, but it only adds miniscule %s of variety, particularly given the fact that all of us hit the ball with the right line and length only a pitifully small % of the time.

But....the more often we play a shot or a hole or a golf course, the more we learn about the course and about our game.  When we play a course (no matter how "great" it may be) only once, all we do is dip our toes into the waters of understanding.  When we play a course multiple times (even if it is very much less than "great") we learn (often exponentially) each time we play.  We learn less if we play all our courses in parallel, regardles of how good those courses might be.  IMHO, of course.

Rich

[BCrosby]

But....the more often we play a shot or a hole or a golf course, the more we learn about the course and about our game.  When we play a course (no matter how "great" it may be) only once, all we do is dip our toes into the waters of understanding.  When we play a course multiple times (even if it is very much less than "great") we learn (often exponentially) each time we play.  We learn less if we play all our courses in parallel, regardles of how good those courses might be.  IMHO, of course.  

I agree, with the caveat that repeat play on a great course should be even more rewarding than on a less than great course. If not, we have a rating problem.

The course I've always heard most rewards repeat play is TOC; even after 30 or 40 rounds the revelations keep coming. I've not played any 'great' course very many times.

Brent's immersion approach would fix that. Though I'd guess you would have to play your repeat rounds alone, as Brent did. Only the rare nutball would consider sacrficing a wider tour for a deeper one.

Bob  

[Scott Warren]

Tom D,

That's a great idea and one I'd love to see some UK clubs embrace to add value for visitors and members.

Rich,

Those changes from round to round surely occur, but a golfer who gets to play to a number of pins is likely to be more engaged and entertained than one who plays 4-6 rounds to the one pin position.

On a hole like Deal's 3rd, 12th or 16th, Dornoch's 10th and 17th, Golspie's 16th, Alwoodley's 3rd and 15th, Swinley's 8th... the list goes on... they'll also get a better appreciation for why those holes are great.

[Rich Goodale]

It's interesting, Scott that you choose 3 holes at Deal which require a very long second shot and are completely or partially blind on that shot.  given that you and I and most mortals are just trying to get our 2nd shots somewhere on or near those greens, not even thinking of distance control (even if we had a pin sheet).  Given the realities of those holes, any golfer on a 3-day immersion visit would have an extremely varied and instructive range of 2nd and 3rd (and 4th) shots to play, even if to the same pin position every day.

The real issue is how much information can we humans absorb about any golf hole, even if played 6 times, regardless of the uniformity (or not) of the conditions (pin position, wind, etc.) of those six plays?  Not much, is my answer, but I do know that if we play a shot or hole or course 6 times we will learn much more than if we play any of those only once.  And, as Bob says, the greatest courses reveal themselves to you only grudgingly, and over a very long time.

[Scott Warren]

It's interesting you say that Rich, because more often than not I had a third shot to reach those greens and that's where the different pins become really important.

Do you disagree with my premise as a general rule (ie. not focusing on those three holes)?

[Rich Goodale]

Not sure what your premise is, Scott, but if it is something to the effect of great green complexes have multiple great pin positions, of course I agree, as it is something I and others have been saying for many years.

Regarding the point at hand, if you played 6 rounds at Deal over 3 days, what sort of grouping would you have for where you ended up after your second shot on those 3 holes you mentioned, even if all conditions were essentially the same?  I suspect it would be less of a Hogan-like grouping than a random horizontal scatterring of places within 10-70 yards from the pin.  Is that not enough variety for you?

[Scott Warren]

All I'm saying, Rich, is that a variety of pin positions is preferable if you're camping at the one course for a few days.

I agree there is natural variety to playing a single pin position repeatedly, but I'd still much prefer to play different pins.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()