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Mike_Cirba

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #325 on: November 29, 2008, 12:58:54 PM »
I really think it is useful to give a comparison of the December 1, 1912 Tillinghast article from the Philadelphia Record newspaper and the article from "Far and Sure" from the January 1913 issue of American Golfer.  I've taken excerpts from each article and posted them side-by-side for comparison.  Below are excerpts on the left from "Far and Sure", and on the right are those from A.W. Tillinghast's piece on December 1, 1912 in the Philadelphia Record:




IMO, if the authors are not one in the same, then somebody did a big-time job of plagiarism.  :)

I thought that this side by side comparison of "Far and Sure" with what Tillinghast wrote in his December 1912 review of Merion in the Philadelphia Record was outstanding in exemplifying the starkly similar wording and opinions.

And although Joe has since posted a copy of the subsequent, January 1913 "American Cricketer" review of Merion by Tillinghast, we've yet to see a side by side comparison.

So, with apologies that my formatting is not nearly as cool as what Joe put together here for easy perusal, I'm hopeful the content that will begin in the following post will be similarly beneficial in making comparisons and drawing conclusions...

Mike_Cirba

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #326 on: November 29, 2008, 01:07:02 PM »
As mentioned in the previous post, the following is a comparison of;

"American Golfer" - January 1913 - "Far and Sure"

"American Cricketer" - January 1913 - A.W Tillinghast


"It is too early to attempt an analytical criticism of the various holes for many of them are but rough drafts of the problems, conceived by the construction committee, headed by Mr. Hugh I. Wilson." – Far and Sure

"To attempt an analysis of some of the holes today would be manifestly unfair, for they are not nearly so far advanced as others, and yet some day the very holes which now are rather uninteresting and featureless may be among the best of them all." -  A.W. Tillinghast


"For example, an attempt to reproduce the Eden green at St. Andrews has been made on the fifteenth and, in my opinion, it has resulted in one of the few failures The hole in question is a two-shotter and the sloping green is so keen and barren of undulations that the player is practically forced to "skittle" his approach in fear of getting above the hole." – Far and Sure

"In an attempt to reproduce the Eden green at St. Andrew’s, the builders, in my opinion, have gone astray on the 15th.  I do not like the green at all with its present surface.   If it had pronounced undulations it would be all right.  When we see the slope and comparatively flat surface we must admit that it will be impossible to hold a ball from above the hole, except when the green is quite soft."  – A.W. Tillinghast


"It required but a glance and a few steps on the turf to convince me that the quality was there and the putting greens were excellent, considering their age. Everything indicated careful, intelligent preparation and painstaking development." – Far and Sure

"The quality of the greens is surprisingly good, and their condition indicates careful and intelligent preparation.  The fairway is excellent, and the soil has less clay in its composition than we usually find in these parts."  – A.W. Tillinghast


"I think that the very best holes at Merion are those which are original, without any attempt to closely follow anything but the obvious. The seventh, twelfth and sixteenth are gems." – Far and Sure

"As the holes are now, I am of the opinion that the sixteenth, seventh, twelth and third are the best ones."  – A.W. Tillinghast


"The seventh naturally demands an accurately placed drive or the pitch to the green from the left is very trying. I am told that there have been some objections to the twelfth and this should at once stamp it as a good one. It is difficult to think of a thoroughly good hole which has not been thoroughly damned by some.  Our illustration shows the dog-leg route to the green. The throw of the fairway to the right forces the successful drive to the left-middle and then the green, over a brook, is nicely opened up. Other holes in even their present condition are good. The third is a fine drive; the ninth is another; the tenth is very interesting and likewise the thirteenth, although the green of the latter may possibly be a trifle large for the length." – Far and Sure

"The third hole is a remarkably fine one-shotter, and presents a closely guarded green.   I like the seventh very much indeed, for it appears to be simplicity itself.   However, if the drive is not played close along the boundary on the right, the player will find that the approach to the terraced green from the left is very bothersome.   I am told that some of the Merion men are not reconciled to the twelfth, but I would regret to see it changed.   The plan of this hole is admirable, in my opinion.   Play your shots and you are rewarded but here the nearly-good ones are properly punished.   The thirteenth is a nice short hole, although the green seems a shade large, considering the length of the shot." – A.W. Tillinghast


"The fourteenth offers a corking dog-leg drive of the road. But the sixteenth!—it is the sixteenth which especially appeals and lasts longest in the memory.   In speaking of this hole we must, in general, consider the last two, for collectively they make a particularly fine finish. The hazard on each is an immense quarry hole which has been cleared and tidied up. It yawns before the long second shot of the sixteenth and the drives from the seventeeth and eighteenth teeing-grounds.  It is a wonderful hazard, mostly mental to be sure, but yet troublesome, particularly on the sixteenth."..."When for the first time I saw the sixteenth green on the new Merion course, a brilliant patch of color just beyond the opening in the dark walls of the old quarry hole, like a flash my thoughts flew back over twenty years and once again I was standing by the rail, joyfully regarding the welcome haven of St. Johns." – Far and Sure

"The old quarry, which is traversed by the last three holes, is a wonderfully effective natural hazard and makes these holes a fine finish.   The seventeenth will be stiffened up in all probability, for as it is the shot is a comparatively easy one, particularly as the teeing ground is on a considerable elevation.  The yawning quarry makes it look fearsome enough, but the terror is more imaginary than real.   The sixteenth is a “corker”.   Permit me to grow enthusiastic over that sixteenth – everybody does.   It is a real gem and worthy of description.   If your drive is a good one you regard the demands of the second, and before you stretches the old quarry hole, its cliff-like sides frowning forbiddingly.   Just beyond, and sparkling like an emerald, is the green, calling for a shot that is brave and true.  It seems almost like a coy , but flirtatious, maiden with mocking eyes flashing at you from over her fan, and, as you measure the distance between, you are fired with the ambition to show off  a bit.   That shot must be a good one.   No one will ever play Merion without taking away the memory of No. 16.   I think though that the quarry is a trifle too much like the Dutch housewife’s kitchen.   In tidying up the place the floor has been made very clean and there is no great difficulty in getting out.   It might as well be just a bit harder." – A.W. Tillinghast


"Everything indicated careful, intelligent preparation and painstaking development. To my way of thinking, some of the greens would be better if they were more undulating, but on the whole they are very satisfactory."   – Far and Sure

"For that matter, I would like to see more pronounced undulations on some of the other greens, too.   The quality of the greens is surprisingly good, and their condition indicates careful and intelligent preparation." – A.W. Tillinghast



"Many of the imported ideas of hazard formation are good, and the grassy hollows of Mid Surrey have been well introduced."  -  Far and Sure

"The Mid-Surrey scheme of grass hollows and mounds has been introduced in some places, although not to a considerable degree." – A.W. Tillinghast



"Ever since golf was introduced in Philadelphia, the city has been in great need of a course such as Merion has produced, or, I should say, is producing, for the work is still in its early stages."..."Merion has a real course in the making—there is no doubt about that —and with a continuance of the intelligent handling which is evinced by its present condition, the club and the city will have every reason to be proud." – Far and Sure

"Summing up my review, I wish to say that I believe that Merion will have a real championship course, and Philadelphia has been crying for one for many years.  The construction committee, headed by Hugh I. Wilson, has been thorough in its methods and deserves the congratulations of all golfers."  – A.W. Tillinghast


"Since the opening of the new Merion course, the golf membership has increased to such an extent as to render it necessary to place a limit on it. To illustrate the stampede, it may be mentioned that every one of the four hundred lockers in the golf club house has been taken and there remains a long waiting list. To relieve the congestion of the course the club has purchased a tract of land close by and an additional eighteen holes will be built." – Far and Sure

"What has been the result of this new course?   Merion has increased its membership to the bursting point, and it has been found necessary to place a limit.   The course has been practically congested ever since it opened.   The golfers wanted to play over a real course, and they flocked there.   Additional ground has been secured, and another eighteen hole course will spring up beside the other." – A.W. Tillinghast



Going back one prior month in American Cricketer, to the December 1912 issue, Tillinghast wrote the following, which we then compare to “Far and Sure”’s January 1913 article;


"On the bulletin board in the new golf house at Merion hangs a withered thing which measures about six inches across.   Under it is this legend; "This divot was not replaced."   It reminds one of the head of the executed Chinese malefactors exposed to the public gaze as a warning to evildoers." – A.W. Tillinghast

"In the Merion clubhouse, on the bulletin board, hangs a withered thing which measures about six inches across.   Under it is this legend:
        "This divot was NOT replaced."
Like the gruesome severed head of the Chinese malefactor, it is exposed to view as a warning to others." – Far and Sure



And one last comparison of “Far and Sure”s January 1913 article to Tillinghast from an earlier (May 1912) Philadelphia Record article;

"I had heard much of the plans and reports of the progressing work, but not until a. month ago did I find the opportunity of seeing it. Two years ago, Mr. Chas. B. Macdonald, who had been of great  assistance in an advisory way, told me that Merion would have one of the best inland courses he had ever seen.." – Far and Sure

"As yet, I have not looked over the new course, but I am informed that the work is progressing rapidly and most satisfactorily.   Last year I met Mr. Macdonald at Garden City and he was quite enthusiastic over the great possibilities at Haverford.  In his opinion, it will eventually be one of the very best inland courses in America." – A.W. Tillinghast


« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 01:24:51 PM by MikeCirba »

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #327 on: November 29, 2008, 06:41:03 PM »
"There is no question in my mind that you guys are simply jumping to conclusions you had pre-ordained. That, of course, is MY opinion."

Philip:

I think we certainly realize, at this point, that you think our opinion that Tillinghast wrote as "Far and Sure" was pre-ordained but I can assure you it was not. The wealth of information that he did write as "Far and Sure" seems to have gotten a bit more than overwhelming and consequently your continued inclination to deny what we think is pretty obvious is what seems to us to be what was pre-ordained.

At this point, I don't really think there needs to be much more presented to establish this point and so I'm beginning to wonder if the reason Mike and Joe keep posting it on here is some attempt to somehow convince you. Personally, I would recommend to them not to try to do that any longer because I don't think anything would convince you. I think your mind is made up and your opinion that Tillinghast did not write as "Far and Sure" was what was pre-ordained.

When anyone puts their opinions on these subjects out there they are of course subject to the analysis and critique of others and all that goes with it. You're more than entitled to your opinion on anything at all and so are we. It seems like you don't have much respect for our analysis and opinion on this particular "Far and Sure" matter and I can tell you we don't have much respect left for your analysis and opinion on it either.

So we should probably all just amicably agree to disagree. I, for one, do not feel at this point that we need your impimatur on this subject to make it appear more valid somehow.

If we were writing and offering our opinion on the identity of "Far and Sure", I believe we would say that it is our strong opinion that Tillinghast did use the pen name "Far and Sure."

Of course you'll seemingly continue to disagree with that and so that's probably the way we should leave it. These two distinctly different points of view on the subject is what others can consider for themselves and come to their own conclusions. That's probably the way it should be from now on, unless and until something else comes up that effects the analysis.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 06:47:37 PM by TEPaul »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #328 on: November 29, 2008, 11:41:59 PM »
Tom,

Unfortunately, I think you're right.   That's too bad, isn't it?
 
I had thought that the discussion was kept on a very civil, very respectful level, and I guess I'll never understand the pre-ordained resistance and seeming refusal to draw what appear to be obvious conclusions from newly discovered information.   

I also know we all respect Phil and his accomplishments and passions a great deal, so I would agree with you that we should just leave it and walk away agreeing to disagree, because for whatever reasons we clearly don't understand, he obviously won't be dissuaded by either our facts or our logical reasoning.

I do hope we can work together with him on other matters because he's a detailed historical nut like the rest of us and a heckuva good guy, as well.




Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #329 on: November 30, 2008, 02:05:00 PM »
Is there a reason that Tillinghast, assuming he was both, wouldn't have just written the same articles instead of changing the wording slightly? If the magazines had a different target audience, then why wouldn't he have just written the same articles for different mags?

The similarity reminds me of writing a report from an encyclopedia in 7th grade and thinking that if I just changed the wording a little bit, that it wasn't plagiarism and it was my own work.

Unless plagiarism was just no big deal back then, I just don't see how it could not possibly be AWT. That being said, there must be some reason why Phil just doesn't believe it...

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #330 on: November 30, 2008, 02:33:52 PM »
Sean,

You asked, "Is there a reason that Tillinghast, assuming he was both, wouldn't have just written the same articles instead of changing the wording slightly? If the magazines had a different target audience, then why wouldn't he have just written the same articles for different mags?"

That is a good question. The facts are that he actually did this for a number of years while writing for Golf Illustrated. In the mid-to-late twenties many of the articles he wrote for Golf Illustrated were also published in the Canadian Golfer; two different magazines with two different geographical audiences.

Some were modified due to space constraints, but the titles were identical, the photos and drawings when used were the same, but they were the same ones.

These were all written under his own name.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:35:56 PM by Philip Young »

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #331 on: November 30, 2008, 06:16:35 PM »
Phil:

What you described there is nothing much more than early syndication. The "pen name" or pseudonym gig very much had and has its own raison d'etre and was not intended to be exactly like syndication.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 06:29:53 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #332 on: November 30, 2008, 06:22:46 PM »
"The similarity reminds me of writing a report from an encyclopedia in 7th grade and thinking that if I just changed the wording a little bit, that it wasn't plagiarism and it was my own work."

Sean:

Had I tried that in the schools I went to I'd have been nailed for plagiarism in a heartbeat. The idea of plagiarism, what it was and what it wasn't was drummed into us with a constant hammer! My sense is plagiarism was always a pretty big deal and certainly when the written word was the most common communication vehicle and a bit more KING than it may be now.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #333 on: November 30, 2008, 10:17:40 PM »
Is there a reason that Tillinghast, assuming he was both, wouldn't have just written the same articles instead of changing the wording slightly? If the magazines had a different target audience, then why wouldn't he have just written the same articles for different mags?

Unless plagiarism was just no big deal back then, I just don't see how it could not possibly be AWT. That being said, there must be some reason why Phil just doesn't believe it...


Sean,

I believe the reasons for the slightly different slants, wording, and focus are primarily the same as any good writer;  simply, knowing your audience.

In the case of the Philadelphia Record news article, he was writing for a general localized Philadelphia readership and it's more to the point, shorter and with a Philly focus.   He begins;

"Last week I had the pleasure of playing the new Merion course.  Since plans were announced the golfers of Philadelphia have waited for the course to develop and open for play.   From the start it was apparent that a great effort was to be made to provide this section with a course of real championship calibre and in view of that which has been done already I predict that this ambition will be realized."

He closes with more rah-rah words for the local faithful, although to be honest, I'm not sure he's truly impressed with the overall course all that much at this point;

"It would be foolish to attempt a more detailed criticism at this time.  Let me sum it  up in a few words:   Merion shows all the earmarks of a great course - and when we consider the comparatively few great courses in the country today, it gives us considerable satisfaction to anticipate that we will have one in Philadelphia."

Let's compare that to his January 1913 review in the American Cricketer.   While it was a small, focused national publication primarily dealing with the sport of cricket and other recreations of the rich like lawn tennis, polo, and even golf, it did still have a Philadelphia bent as I believe it was published here and was actually trumpeting itself for sometime as the voice of the Golf Association of Philadelphia.

For this magazine, Tillinghast steps back a bit from a purely cheerleading role and offers something more in the way of philsophical wranging as a critic;

"The critic who reads a book or sees a play and then immediately sits down and attempts to review it is rather unfair.   If he permits his subject to soak in, devoting thought to it, and regarding it from all angles, he is then qualified to offer an honest, intelligent criticism.   Frequently he must read the book or see the play a second time before he is ready to take up his pencil."

"Before winter came down on us I visited Merion to play over the new course for the first time.   I liked it then, but I permitted weeks to pass before I attempted to put my impressions on paper.   It must be remembered that the golf course is unlike a book or the play, for it is not a work tha tis finished and to be judged as it is.   As a matter of fact, a golf course is never completed, and Merion is at present in a very early stage:  consequently we must regard it as the foundation from which there will gradually rise the structure of the builder's plans.   To attempt an analysis of some of the holes today would be manifestly unfair, for they are not nearly so far advanced as others, and yet some day the very holes which now are rather uninteresting and featureless may be among the best of them all."

Clearly a bit more guarded for a bit more of what was clearly a more sophisticated reading audience.   Still, he does seem overall positive, or at least optimistic as he closes;

"Summing up my review, I wish to say that I believe that Merion will have a real championship course, and Philadelphia (note he doesn't use the term "we") has been crying for one for many years.   The construction committee, headed by Hugh I. Wilson, has been thorough in its methods and deserves the congratulations of all golfers."

Finally, writing for what is clearly the national cognescenti of the game in "American Golfer", Tillinghast almost reaches a level of poetry in waxing philosophically and with almost classical mythology in describing Philadelphia's great new course to a national audience of his fellow golf afficianados across the continent;

"A number of years ago your correspondent was a passenger on a crippled ocean liner, and for nearly a week we had been making but little headway under sail. For several days we had lost our bearings and a fog that could almost be cut with a knife had settled on us. At last it lifted and we found that we were quite close to the Newfoundland coast, and we finally made the harbor of St Johns for repairs. I shall never forget that harbor. Rocks, gray and forbidding, on each side came down to the beating surf, but between them in the distance nestled the little port in the green lap of the Newfoundland hills."

"When for the first time I saw the sixteenth green on the new Merion course, a brillant patch of color just beyond the opening in the dark walls of the old quarry hole, like a flash my thoughts flew back over twenty years and once again I was standing by the rail, joyfully regarding the welcome haven of St. Johns."

"Ever since golf was introduced in Philadelphia, the city has been in great need of a course such as Merion has produced, or, I should say, is producing, for the work is still in its early stages. I had heard much of the plans and reports of the progressing work, but not until a. month ago did I find the opportunity of seeing it.  Two years ago, Mr. Chas. B. Macdonald, who had been of great assistance in an advisory way, told me that Merion
would have one of the best inland courses he had ever seen, but every  new course is "one of the best in the country" and one must see to believe
after trying it out.  I had hoped that it was as good as reported, for it  appeared to be the one great chance to provide Philadelphia with a real championship course. Fortunately I had  as my first guides two of Merion's best golfers: Mr. Howard W. Perrin and Mr. Hugh Willoughby, and my two rounds there that day were delightful.  It required but a glance and a few steps on the turf to convince me that the quality was there and the putting greens were excellent, considering their age.  Everything indicated careful, intelligent preparation and painstaking development."

Stepping back fully and portraying himself as something of an outside, impartial observer, he concludes;

"Merion has a real course in the making—there is no doubt about that —and with a continuance of the intelligent handling which is evinced by its present condition, the club and the city will have every reason to be
proud."


« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 10:22:31 PM by MikeCirba »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #334 on: December 01, 2008, 09:29:39 AM »
Sean,

One other reason for the differences in the articles beyond audience is the disparity in space each publication was willing to provide to the author.

In the case of the Philadelphia Record, the article is a single newspaper column-width, with 5 medium-length paragraphs of 728 words.

In the American Cricketer, the sizable review takes up about 1.25 pages, with three small pictures embedded among the 10 medium-length paragraphs, totalling 1307 words.

In the American Golfer, there is also more room for Tilly to expound as the review covers over 3.5 pages, with 3 larger pics embedded within an article of 1372 words.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 09:59:57 AM by MikeCirba »

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record
« Reply #335 on: September 24, 2012, 08:14:31 PM »
This is a wonderful old thread just waiting to be bumped.

Please note that the Tillinghast Society recently put up a PDF of all the articles supposedly penned by Tilly.  And this crucial one by Far and Sure on Merion they now think was in fact penned by Tilly.  Hard to believe, Harry!   ;) ;D
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast articles from the Philadelphia Record New
« Reply #336 on: October 08, 2012, 05:11:58 PM »
Just for completeness I want to re-post below the 'controversial' American Golfer article from January, 1913 by "Far and Sure".  In the first few pages of this thread some people vigorously defended their belief that Far and Sure was NOT Tilly.  This included Tillinghast expert Phil Young.

In the fairly recent past Phil and the Tillinghast Association now agree this Far and Sure article was in fact penned by Tilly (perhaps a typesetting error that put 'Far and Sure' instead of his previous pen name at AG of Hazard).

Here is the very detailed review of Merion (it just opened a few months prior) by Tilly:







« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 03:49:55 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

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